NSW Solicitor Breaching AVO by Encouraging Contact?

Discussion in 'Family Law Forum' started by Beth1981, 9 October 2018.

  1. Beth1981

    Beth1981 Well-Known Member

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    I currently have a no contact AVO taken out by the police against my ex-husband. My two children and I are the protected persons. I am currently in family law court to which the ex is attempting to get visitation rights. His solicitor, although fully aware of the order has been sending me correspondence asking that I allow my ex to spend time with the children supervised by his parents.

    I was told that anyone (including his solicitor) who encouraged or facilitated contact when there is the 'no contact order' in place is liable to charges. Is this correct?
     
  2. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Nope... Solicitor can write to you for the purpose of legal stuff. Othewise poor old dad would have no capacity what so ever to initiate family court proceedings unti lthe avo is expired which could be years.

    So solilicitor is writing to you, why not write back? So if you have no concerns for the welfare of the kids why not agree for his parents to pick the kids up at McDonalds and keep then for a night a week? unless dad has an established criminal history that involved abuse etc Not just the AVO then this might be a better option than fighting to stop the kids seeing their dad.

    BTW post in the family law section....
     
  3. Beth1981

    Beth1981 Well-Known Member

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    There is a No Contact order in place for the protection of the children, who are listed as protected persons, which should tell you that a judge has decided that 'poor old dad' is not fit or stable to be in the childrens life and obviously has concerns for their welfare.

    'Poor old dad' does have an established criminal history which involves violence and abuse. Also, his solicitor is able to start proceedings without encouraging contact, thats the whole purpose of a court and a judge and hearings and orders...?
     
  4. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    OK, so the AVO will have some fine print. Basically, communication is OK, as long as it isn't harassment. Nope, dad, his mum, brother, etc., can't contact you. But a legal representative, or someone from a mediation service can...

    If that wasn't there, then dad would not be able to have anyone contact you for the purposes of mediation. Dad would have to wait for the AVO to expire before he gets to even try and see his kids. That sucks.... So let's assume it is a 2-year AVO? 1 yr? Dear old dad can't see his kids for that long?

    Ok criminal history. Child abuse? Child neglect? How long ago? If so, he'll have problems in court... But an assault, drug possession and a drink drive charge or two isn't gonna help his case but it isn't gonna stop a magistrate ordering that he sees the kids.

    So dear old dad has spend some considerable $$$ in getting a solicitor to write to you. Not the cheapest option, but possibly the fastest depending on your attitude. You can save some $$$ by writing back to the solicitor. I'd suggest agreeing t to Grandma picking the kids up at the nearest Macca's and keeping them for a day or so, maybe even overnight? but I don't know how old the kids are. 6 month old? maybe not. 5 yr old... Yep a night at Granny's house with dad is reasonable.

    Now I don't think his solicitor is starting proceeding without encouraging contact... Here is my problem with you... On the one hand you don't want the solicitor contacting you, based on the AVO. But at the same time it would appear that solicitor is encouraging contact - at Granny's house but you don't wanna discuss?

    Look, I'm just a punter with a keyboard. But it seems to me dad is gonna take this to court if he has to. What is gonna stop that? You agreeing to him seeing his kids. If he is an ice addict with an addiction to child porn. Ignore me... But if he is a bloke that wants to spend 8 hours with his kid on Saturday until a more formal arrangement can be made, well that ain't unreasonable.

    But the solicitor is not breaching the AVO by writing to you.
     
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  5. Rod

    Rod Well-Known Member
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    Check the AVO orders. Suspect you'll see an exemption allowing his lawyer to contact you.
     
    Stop hovering to collapse... Click to collapse... Hover to expand... Click to expand...
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  6. Beth1981

    Beth1981 Well-Known Member

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    I don't mind the solicitor contacting me, its the solicitor encouraging contact when she was aware of the protection order. I had expected if the father wanted visitation he would have to follow the process and have a judge order it. And to be honest, I will be ignoring you, because you pretty much hit the nail on the head with your description, he IS an ice addict with (perhaps not child porn, but young teenage girls) porn addiction, alcohol abuse not to mention heavy criminal activity and violence.

    Not all mothers keeping their children from the fathers are men hating, spiteful bitches using their children as pawns. Some of us just need to do what has to be done to keep their children safe.

    Thank you.
     
  7. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Feel free to ignore my opinion.

    Dad is following the process. He paid a solicitor to write to you and make a suggestion so the bloke can see his kids - all legal. You can refuse. That is your choice, again all legal. Dad will then have to follow the next part of the process and apply to court.

    Here is my concern for you though - without third party evidence - police, Doc's independent psychologists appointed by the court, then there is no hard evidence... Sure you could have an internet history that shows he looked up some dodgy stuff. Criminal history too..But unless he is creating or distributing images of young kids, he isn't actually breaking the law. And unless the criminal activity included the kids...

    Dad didn't rob a bank on his way home from picking the kids up at pre-school did he? Then the criminal stuff shows poor form. But doesn't mean the guys should be excluded from seeing the kids.

    So getting a solicitor to write to you is in accordance with the rules. You can ignore me and you can ignore those solicitor's letters... Dad will have no other option but to apply to court. So what then for you? Do you have a lazy 10K or more to spend on solicitors? Are you prepared for the courts to determine that dad should see the kids and potentially make a cost order against you for some of dad's legal fees?

    You are right... "Not all mothers keeping their children from the fathers are men hating, spiteful bitches using their children as pawns." The solicitor's letter seems to indicate that dad wants a few hours with the kids - With supervision. Why do you think that is unreasonable?

    So let's forward plan here... You wind up in court. Dad hasn't seen the kids in months. Not even with supervision. Why? You... Doesn't look great. You seem unreasonable.... Or you have provided very limited access with supervision because you have concerns. You seem reasonable.

    I know which is a better starting point from which to hope to get a good outcome from a judge... But feel free to ignore my opinion. BTW - at no point did I ever suggest you are a man hating spiteful b***h. Don't know how you even thought I was indicating that...
     
  8. Beth1981

    Beth1981 Well-Known Member

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    Considering that dad doesn't have a job, nor has had one for many, many years, i find it very difficult to believe that he has actually paid a solicitor, most likely is utilising legal aid. But whatever. I have refused, we will see what the next step in the process is.

    I plan an asking for his criminal and medical records to be subpoenaed, which will prove not just his criminal behaviour, but his multiple mental illnesses, drug abuse, hepatitis status, etc. I do actually have hard evidence, being letters, texts, even a dozen positive drug tests which i was using in the past when i was allowing him to visit the children on the condition he could pass a drug test at the time, which more often than not, he failed. Not to mention multiple witnesses to the violence he inflicted on me in front of our children.

    To my knowledge, he hasn't robbed a bank, but he has made a stop at a brothel and had prostitutes in the unit in which he had the children?

    Btw, my daughters are 13 and 12, old enough to remember a lot, and old enough to make an informed decision.

    I find it difficult to believe that a court would make a cost order against me for refusing contact with the children's father when there is a avo in place, in fact i find it more likely i could face charges of breaching the order myself if i was to allow it.
    h
    I'd like to let it be known that for many years i attempted to maintain a relationship between father and daughters, but the final straw was when me daughters asked me to not encourage them to spend time with him anymore, this happened not long after they found intravenous drug paraphernalia amongst his belongings, and also several weeks after their birthdays when he decided to contact them and bring them a gift, to which arrived drug affected and which one was a dog collar (ok, yes we do have a dog) and the other a pot plant (no card), both not really appropriate gifts for 10 year old girls, and really just reinforced to them his lack of care really.

    For these reasons I do believe visitation is unreasonable and likely to be more detrimental to my daughters than beneficial. Trust me, i could actually continue on with examples why I believe it to be unreasonable for days, but ill save that for when its actually needed. My initial question has been answered, and my issue has been dealt with accordingly,
     
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