NSW She is going to take me to the cleaners - where do I stand?

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evea8571

Well-Known Member
16 January 2022
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Hi All,

This is a long story and complicated, but I will try to keep it as concise as possible.



Marriage has been in dire straits for a while, she is a control freak and narcissist. I have finally come to the conclusion she can't see reason so I have been looking into divorce for some time now. I HAVE had legal advice but I'm looking a second opinion here as some things just seem wrong.



Been married for 5 years and we have a 4 year old. I know where I stand with child rights so don’t need to cover that here; adding here though in case that factors into the financial apsect. We are both high earners and neither of us would struggle for money if alone. What I am unsure of is the financial split.

I am from the UK and had a house for 15 years before I met her. House is worth approx. $180k and I have paid off approx. 100k so I brought 80k as contributions. In the five years we’ve been together she has only contributed $1000 when I needed to pay for some repairs at one point, this was only done because we only had a joint account and couldn’t pay it myself (she put a stop to that early so she could control me more).

When we got our joint account I brough in 10k, she brought nothing. I also paid off the rest of her hex loan and her car loan which also came to approx another 10k.

She bought an apartment when we started dating but it was off the plan and only got completed AFTER we got married. We moved in together there and since DAY 1 when she had to make the first repayment, I have paid exactly half for the whole 5 years, this is the mortgage, strata fees, building, literally everything. The apartment is worth approx $470k but was bought for around $540 so she (we) has actually lost money.

In terms of wages since being together I have always earned a lot more than her. I would say she earns about 2/3 of what I earn so it’s quite significant.

We also bought a house for approx. $1m which is 50/50 exactly on everything. Her parents “gifted” us 60k to help with the deposit.

I am a very reasonable person and all I want back is what I put in. I have suggested we split all assets which we can easily identify as 50/50 first then move onto assets in our own names. This would be the house, furniture etc and joint bank account (both cars were bought out of our own money and I know there would be no issue here, she keeps one I keep one). I have also said that I will pay back her parents my half of the deposit after we sell the house which is 30k. In turn though, I only think it is fair that she gives me back what I have invested into her apartment (my name is not on the deeds). Just on this point alone I believe (at least morally) I am entitled to more anyway since I have brought in so much more money than her the past 5 years, but I thought it would be petty to go there, so I just said 50/50 split. Here is where the narcissism comes out.

She said she won’t give me anything back I have put into her apartment and that it is tough luck and it’s what I signed up for when we got married. Of course, this led to massive row. A few nasty things were said by her and I retaliated by saying I can get half of her apartment because I have paid everything from day 1 with her (except a 50k deposit she put down), I would say this is approx. 20k. When I said that, she said she was going to take half of my house then, and things just got of hand as arguments do…

I know how the asset pool and contributions work; I don’t need advice on this. What I want to know is the following (of which I can prove):

  • The money I have put into her apartment since being with her of 20k does that count as contribution my side and am I entitled get it back?
  • Same goes for the 10k I opened our bank account with, and the 10k I used to pay off her loans
  • Does she have any claim to my house? She said she does, but I don’t see how, I am wondering if it is all just bluster to scare me (she’s very controlling); she has had legal advice however, does she know something I don’t?
  • Where do I stand with her parents’ “gift”? This is a tricky one because I have had different answers to this. On one hand I have heard that legally I do not have to give it back as it was a gift – they wrote a letter and signed it saying so and said we didn’t owe them anything. On the other hand, I was told that this would actually be viewed as a contribution from her side, anyone know how this works?
Just to clarify my intention with the gift. I intend to give her parents it back but if she starts getting nasty, which I think she will, I want to use it as leverage by saying that if she doesn’t want to give back my invested money I put into her apartment then I’ll take it out the gift money and give back what is left.

I also have lots of evidence that shows she is controlling, manipulative and abusive but I am unsure if this holds any sway legally? For example, the main reason I want my investment back is because she manipulated and lied to me about it. 6 months after I moved into her flat, I realised I was wasting my money and paying for her investment. I asked her to put me on the mortgage and explained why. She really didn’t want to do it because she saved up the 50k by herself. I was understanding of this and could see her point, but then explained that it wasn’t fair on me also to continue paying and not “protecting” myself. So I gave her an alternative, I said I would not pay anything instead and she keeps it in her name. She didn’t like this either so agreed to put me on the mortgage. We signed all the paperwork at home and she “sent it off”. Turns out she never did, and I found it recently by accident that I’m not on the deeds. Regardless of where I stand legally here, that was a disgusting thing to do and extremely manipulative, and I can prove it if needed. So she can get f*ed (pardon the language) if she thinks I am not getting the money back I put into it.


Wow, and that was the short version!
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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Ok, so there is no certianty in family law. So all answers come with a 'maybe.
  • The money I have put into her apartment since being with her of 20k does that count as contribution my side and am I entitled get it back? Ok, so you were living in the apartment? So you benefited from it... So no... But the appartment exists, so it will be part of the pool
  • Same goes for the 10k I opened our bank account with, and the 10k I used to pay off her loans. 10K small fries. Look it isn't worth the stress.
  • Does she have any claim to my house? She said she does, but I don’t see how, I am wondering if it is all just bluster to scare me (she’s very controlling); she has had legal advice however, does she know something I don’t? The existence of your house matters but so does her aparment.
  • Where do I stand with her parents’ “gift”? This is a tricky one because I have had different answers to this. On one hand I have heard that legally I do not have to give it back as it was a gift – they wrote a letter and signed it saying so and said we didn’t owe them anything. On the other hand, I was told that this would actually be viewed as a contribution from her side, anyone know how this works?
    This one is a bit tricky, but l don't think you have any legal obligation to pay back half. That is a legal matter between you and her parents.

    Solution look based on the child living mostly with mum???? You having a higher earning capacity... And you have not mentioned superannuation. I'm suggesting you offer her 60/40. Why? well settling without spending $$$ on a long drawn out court process is a good idea.
 

Immismum

Well-Known Member
11 May 2020
42
4
129
If you look up Allforher posts, you will see the rough breakdown of what normally happens in a property settlement.

first you need to establish the pool of assets. This is everything, not just what you acquired during the marriage, so your house is part of the asset pool
then the debts, so establish a net asset position.
the look at the initial contributions and make adjustments
Look at future need.

So, I think you are on a hiding to nothing wanting what you want.

The apartment in her name probably has very little to no equity. There is no way you are going to get back your contributions to mortgage, fees etc. First you lived there, so got value from that, and second, she is right, it was something that happened during the marriage, so you don’t get to undo it once you are split.Let her ‘win’ on that, if you get to keep your initial house out of the asset pool.

you need to get yourself some good legal advice, because from the way I read it, you are going to push her into a position that will mean you will end up with far less than if you had just agreed with her in the first place.
 

Tim W

Lawyer
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28 April 2014
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The lawyers here will tell you that they won't second guess the work of another lawyer.
Especially not without a detailed understanding of the facts and circumstances, which isn't possible here.
Further, factor in that your existing lawyer is within their rights to sack you if they suspect that you are second guessing their advice.
Especially second guessing their advice by asking laymen.

You'll get lots of opinions from people who are not lawyers,
But you seem like someone who already knows how much weight to give those.

You say that in the end, all you want is The One Number. You already know what that is.
Your approach to the "gift" sum is this - pay it. You may resent it, but it's the literal dollar cost of making all this sh!t go away.
 

evea8571

Well-Known Member
16 January 2022
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71
Thank you all for replies and advice so far.

So just to clarify in regard to the asset pool and my house alone. If it's worth $180k and I have paid off $100k does that mean I have "contributed" 80k? Just so I can make sure I understand how contributions works, assume that there are no other assets by either of us and we had a bank account of $100k between us, and everything else is 50/50 and don't count my child in factoring in the split, would I be right in working it out as so:

From the $100k I would get my contribution of 80k back then the remaining 20k is split between us?

Again, I just want to emphasise that I know this situation would never exist, I am oversimplifying it just to see if I understand this part of contributions correctly.

Regarding her apartment, I understand I have lived there so have benefited from it, but haven’t I essentially paid half of her mortgage too for her? Something I didn’t mention earlier but maybe is relevant now, we only lived there for 1 year. Since then, we have had tenants but it doesn’t cover everything so we (I) have had to cover strata fees, council, and other stuff which she would have had to pay by herself if we are not together. So, for 4 years I have paid half into her apartment investment with nothing to gain, surely this can’t be fair if I am not entitled to any of it back when she essentially profited from me?

Tim, just to address your comments. Sorry if I’ve offended you in any way, it sounds like I might have. When I was talking about the lawyer, it is one I spoke to a long time ago when we had our last big fight. All I am trying to do is save some costs before I go and see a lawyer. Here is how I generally approach everything in life: Research myself first (read loads and loads of articles) and learn about the subject matter as much as I can. Then I may post questions on forums to get the info I couldn’t through reading. Although most are laymen’s (your words) they still have more experience than me if they are answering forum questions – plus you get professionals in here too like yourself. After all that I collate my info and then go and see a professional to verify it all. I am certainly not stupid enough to not seek legal advice on something like this. The reason I am “second guessing” some of the details here is because it just feels morally wrong that she can potentially get some handout from my house which I have slogged over for 15 years (and she didn’t contribute) yet I am not entitled to the same privilege of her apartment which I did contribute to, from day 1 - I can’t see how a judge/the law would allow it.

Anyway, from what others have said it is looking like it would be a bad idea to pursue it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention Super. I don't know the exact numbers but even with me earning more I suspect she has a lot more than me as I only came to Aus at 31 whereas she has worked since 24 (ish) when out of uni so she's got at least 6 years on me.
 

Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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Been married for 5 years
The weight given to Initial contributions in a property settlement erode over time .... So how long were you a 'couple' as in living together planning a future etc?
I am entitled to more anyway since I have brought in so much more money than her the past 5 years,
You mentioned you have a 4 year old ... Who of you stayed home to raise him/her? .... Did you know that non financial contributions such as child rearing is generally seen as equal to financial contributions?
So just to clarify in regard to the asset pool and my house alone. If it's worth $180k and I have paid off $100k does that mean I have "contributed" 80k?
It means that at the time of you beginning your relationship, the equity in your house at that time (do you have an actual valuation from that time) was your initial contribution.
Regarding her apartment, I understand I have lived there so have benefited from it, but haven’t I essentially paid half of her mortgage too for her?
ALL assets (of you both) became subject to an alteration of property interests when you got married (or were in a defacto relationship for at least 2 years) if the relationship broke down ... A marriage is not the same as an investment portfolio .... IF you both agree to this or that & formalise it in consent orders or a BFA, all well & good, if not, then lawyers will take their pound of flesh until you do agree....

I suggest you take all the facts & figures, current valuations etc along to a family law solicitor for an opinion on what her likley just & fair entitlement will be, then you have a solid legal basis to work from.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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short relationship - so folks should expect to take what they brought in. So I'll use me as an example. I had lots in super. 7 yr marriage. So in theory only the super that accumulated during the relationship should matter. But in reality everything gets looked at.

I agree with Atticus - take the paperwork to a solicitor - and get an opinion. Look if you're gonna get taken to the cleaners it will be partly by the ex and partly by solicitors.

So again, using me as an example. I offered 65% to her. Just wanted i sorted. She fought. She wanted 105% (yup, no typo). End result she got about 65% but a whole chunk of money had disappeared into solicitor's pockets meaning the asset pool had shrunk so the 65% was smaller in real terms than the original offer.
 

evea8571

Well-Known Member
16 January 2022
16
0
71
The weight given to Initial contributions in a property settlement erode over time .... So how long were you a 'couple' as in living together planning a future etc?
WE were together approx 1 year beforehand.
You mentioned you have a 4 year old ... Who of you stayed home to raise him/her? .... Did you know that non financial contributions such as child rearing is generally seen as equal to financial contributions?
Neither of us. We both worked, and both took 3 months off at the beginning at different times. She took first 3 months off, I took second, then he went to daycare. Now his grandparents look afrer him 3 days a week (her parents and we pay them).
In general though if I am being transparent she does more with him.
 

Tim W

Lawyer
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28 April 2014
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Atticus

Well-Known Member
6 February 2019
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WE were together approx 1 year beforehand.
Okay, so your relationship was around 6 years, which is a little longer than the genearlly accepted definition of a short relationship. ie, less than 5 years ... Having a child will alter how the court is liklely to rule (should it finish up in a contested hearing) .... Get valuations on property & get that legal opinion, don't let principals cloud your judgment ... A little money compromised now will likely save you a lot later