NSW Road Rage Leading to Car Damage - What to Do?

Discussion in 'Traffic Law Forum' started by Lucaslly97, 27 April 2019.

  1. Lucaslly97

    Lucaslly97 Well-Known Member

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    Just here trying to get help for a fellow car enthusiast (the one who recorded the footage).

    So here is the footage: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q62vOCGRcYQ&feature=youtu.be

    Basically, the footage shows that a white Corolla tried to cut in front of him (0:46) and later allegedly threw something at him (but the camera failed to record it visually because of camera angle (2:13) ) There is only a sound.

    It was also recorded that after those in the Toyota Corolla saw the dash cam, they started trying to leave.

    The car was damaged.

    What is the odds of escalating this and deliver justice successfully?
     
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  2. Adam1user

    Adam1user Well-Known Member

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    I watched the video, both parties are wrong: Your friend is wrong is that your friend should have given way to the Corolla at the start, it is the right of way for the corolla, your friend was the reason for the near accident. The corolla is wrong for alleged throwing the item (I say alleged as there is no proof, and that is what your friend will face in court). So let your friend suck it up and make it a lesson to learn. I am not a lawyer so I may be wrong. Seek legal advice for a better result.
     
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  3. Scruff

    Scruff Well-Known Member

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    That's absolute garbage.

    1. The Corolla was never in a position to safely change lanes.
    2. The Corolla is required to give way to traffic already in the other lane. Racing ahead and throwing your indicator on like all the other idiots on the roads these days, does not give you right of way. In those circumstances, you are in the wrong every single time if there is any collision.

    Your friend should take the video to the Police - but don't be surprised if they ask for earlier footage to see if something else occurred before the two cars arrived at the lights.
     
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    #3 Scruff, 27 April 2019
    Last edited: 27 April 2019
  4. Rob Legat - SBPL

    LawTap Verified

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    I don’t know if I agree with @Scruff. There’s no lane markings there, and we can’t see the lane markings at the lights. Where two lanes change into one, without markings on the road, it’s a merge event where the car in front has right if way (at least it is in Queensland). If there were dotted lines, the car whose lane ends must give right of way.

    However, if it was not two lanes at the lights, then the other car has effectively tried to overtake on the left in the same lane - which is definitely not allowed.

    As for the ‘throwing stuff at the car’, I’d say there is insufficient evidence to prove that. The sound could have been a number of things.

    Further, when both cars stopped your friend stopped adjacent to yellow lines on the side of the road and in a lane. The police might make something of that and your friend should not have stopped there, that they should have gone around when safe to do so.
     
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  5. Lucaslly97

    Lucaslly97 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the advice.

    It’s highly improbable that that is a merging situation in NSW. I’d let him know to check earlier footage.

    As for the the throwing, now we know it’s unlucky.
     
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  6. Atticus

    Atticus Well-Known Member

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    Nothing to stop you from reporting this to police as a road rage incident... the whole who should have given way to who is arguable, BUT, still no excuse for road rage

    You have evidence of them passing, then slowing down till you pull along side so they can continue their rage. Then actually pulling over and approaching your car arms waving. Fair to assume that it may well have escalated from there if they hadn't spotted the dashcam

    As for the damage... a sound but no visual. On the balance of probability principle, its not UNlikely, but probably not enough for a civil court to order repair costs. Road rage is taken fairly seriously. However. No assaults took place so only a chat and warning by cops at most IMO.
     
  7. Adam1user

    Adam1user Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your support, that my comment is absolute garbage, I remember in the news there was several articles about lane changing and the right of way, but even if there are no markings on the road that does not mean common sense and respect should come into it, and if I remember correctly the responsibility falls on the driver to drive safe and prevent accidents, so I am sure if this situation reaches the court, my opinion would not be considered "garbage".
     
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  8. Scruff

    Scruff Well-Known Member

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    Apologies @Adam1user. Rob is correct in that there are no lane markings on the far side of the intersection - I thought there was and I was wrong.

    It can be clearly seen in the video that the roadway is two lanes wide and the left side is blocked by parked vehicles. It can also be seen that there are no lane markings until around 1:12 into the video, which means that on the far side of the intersection, there is only one lane.

    BUT...

    Street View shows that on approach, lane markings begin just before the intersection. It also confirms there are none on the other side. Without any markings related to turning (left turn only for example), the purpose of the short left lane is for turning left or for passing vehicles that are waiting to turn right. Unfortunately, there's nothing that says you can't go straight ahead from the left lane and that means that idiots like this guy use those situations for overtaking even when vehicles in the right lane are going straight ahead.

    So it appears that the "merging" rules do actually apply here. But regardless of that, there are still other issues. The Corolla still has to give sufficient indication - which it didn't. Instead, the Corolla doesn't indicate until it starts moving across - and that's not just failing to indicate, it's also dangerous driving, because moving across without indicating early enough nearly caused an accident.

    The recording vehicle simply could have pulled out earlier and let the Corolla go, but with no earlier indication, they didn't have to under the law. Did the recording vehicle do enough to avoid a collision? Yes - because there wasn't one. Did the Corolla? Yes, but only after causing the situation in the first place.

    It's therefore pot luck as to what the Police would say about it, because common sense says that the Corolla either should never have been there to begin with, or should have indicated much earlier or given way. But unfortunately, far too often we see that the law and common sense are two entirely different things.

    Anyway, there's a whole bunch of issues here. One is that the Corolla appears to go over the stop line when it creeps forward - the recording vehicle may have as well but it's hard to tell. The next is how late the Corolla indicates and that it moved right regardless. Another is that the recording vehicle swerves a few times - there may or may not be enough circumstantial evidence to claim extenuating circumstances - the problem being that the Corolla is not always in view. Another is that after stopping, the recording vehicle appears to leave and change lanes twice without indicatiing - the left indicator goes off when leaving, but we don't see any more flashing when moving right then back to the left. (We should be able to clearly see this on the ground as we did earlier.)

    In regard to the noise, the video doesn't show anything on the road that could have caused it, so assuming the owner has photos of the damage, I would think there is enough evidence to conclude something was thrown at the vehicle.

    For anyone who's interested in taking a look at the markings, it's pretty easy to work out that the vehicles were heading south in Wyndham St, Alexandria, NSW and the cross street at that first intersection is McEvoy St.

    Here's a Street View that begins just before that intersection, showing where the lane markings begin and how short they are: Google Maps
     
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  9. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    So - it would appear that the driver of the car with the camera merged in behind the other car and flashed their high beams... Now - without sufficent evidence to prove that the driver of the other car threw anything - it then becomes a problem... Did the driver flash head lights to be aggressive? Seems reasonable that could at least be argued...
     
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