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WA Restraining Order and Family Court Issues with Ex?

Discussion in 'Family Law Forum' started by SG 66, 16 July 2016.

  1. SG 66

    SG 66 Active Member

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    Hi, everyone.

    A bit of background for you.

    Back in March, I was thrown out the house with no warning and I have even received letters from the wife saying I could stay till June. I found $30k missing from the bank account and also, via internet banking, found out that she had transferred all the funds into a bank account in her name only.

    Just prior to that, I also found other amounts to her father and that she had also bought him a car and paid lawyers and other items for him. It all added up to around $500k in the end over our 16 years of marriage but most of it since 2010.

    In that time, we had 4 children ages are 4,9,11,13, with the 9-year-old being the only boy. They are on the Violence Restraining Order as well. It has been 16 weeks now that I haven't seen them and the Violence Restraining Order court date isn't until the very end of September. We were also just prior to me being turfed out in the process of purchasing a business.

    I have just settled the financial side of things with only just enough money to cover the requirements for the bank as it will help me look after the kid's futures and she said I could see the kids once it was out the way.

    I was happy to settle, just to get rid of her and now I will have a fighting fund to fight for the kids and it was probably better than going to court. She got 70/30 of the combined superannuation and 60/40 of the cash that was left from the sale of our house in 2014. I was told it wouldn't get much better than that and now I can move forward.

    She wanted me to sign a minute of undertaking that the Violence Restraining Order stays in place and she will take the kids off it. We had already sent one to her with the Violence Restraining Order removed but with the same undertakings as the Violence Restraining Order (not that I want to talk to her anyway).

    Anyway, there is a bit more involved in the past to get into for now but its hard to keep it simple and short.

    Point form might help:

    1. The VRO is complete B--- S--- she has even told the godfather of our kids she only used it to keep control of the kids, money and get me out of the house and I have read the transcript and the whole thing is full of crap. We had a home office at the time and she was asked in court if I had any tools of the trade at the house. With only 30 mins to get out, I could only grab a few thing for work.

    Because of that and trying to find a place it took 11 weeks to get the internet on and some office stuff from her it completely stuffed the business we had. She even told the two JP's in the court that my 13-year-old saw me taking pictures of my penis and sending them a friend. She also has texts supposed from the kids at 9.30 at night saying they are frightened of Daddy and even a letter from my 11-year-old saying how frighten she is, however, there are 3 different sets of handwriting in it.

    Sorry, I'm going on a bit. The only thing I can say is it is a rubbish and it was all to do with her getting sprung shifting money out to her old man. And that is another story a blood sucking long one. So the thing is I was set up to stay and set up for a big fall by them both on promises of many things.

    I have a letter from her saying I could supply the kids a phone so they can talk to me which I did and I saw all the kids on the day before my 4-year-old's birthday 22 May for two hours with their godmother present and gave them the phone then.

    All the kids were crying at the end and wanted to come with me. The next night I called them with their godfather with me on speaker phone and my 9-year-old son said he had the day off school because he felt so sick because he missed me so much. After that, she turned the phone off and threw it in the cupboard then wrote my solicitor a letter saying she wouldn't vary the VRO because I had upset them so much. And that's just a little bit of the B--- S--- she has done along the way. She even went to Bali for 5 days and left the kids with her parents.

    2. She got the kids put on the VRO out of spite the whole thing is vexatious and it takes so long to get to court and defend it, bloody just over 6 months and to have the feeling that I wouldn't even know if the kids are alive or dead, just helpless and the whole system suck's.

    The VRO was all on her say not proof or even hearsay, her lying her say and I lost my kids because of a spiteful mother that got caught loving the wrong family, her father.

    3 They sent the older kids to the psychologist and so I found out because the older two said they were a little frightened at times they can try to keep the kids off me longer. They really did their homework before I wasn't of any use anymore.

    All emotional hurtful things as they can all the way, I got the VRO a week after my 50th and on good Friday which was our 16 anniversary and I was taking the kids to their Nanny's that weekend for an Easter egg hunt.

    Sorry going off again :)

    Anyway on Monday I'm going to lodge the forms in family court regarding the kids and even if I do have to have supervision I don't care.

    I was a full-time Dad I only worked 22 hours a week and cook cleaned did breakfasts washed clothes did the school drop off's you name it I was there, we had the home office.

    OK, enough going on SG.

    Anything you can think of that might help me get the kids and get rid of that f---- VRO. I know she will fight me all the way and hard too. She isn't scared of lying through her teeth by the way. At first, I'm going to offer 4 weeks of supervised visits min of 6 hours per week.

    Then I'm going to ask for the kids from school pick up Wednesday till school drop off Friday morning and then the next week school Friday afternoon to Monday morning school drop off, so 6 nights a fortnight and that way I don't have to see her too.

    The VRO is the other. I have been told that she wants it to stay on her because her friends and school mums and dads might find out what really happened.

    On the other hand, it would make for some great conversations at dancing concerts and soccer games.

    Hope you can help and thanks for listening.

    ;)
     
  2. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    So the last thing you wrote about great conversations... If you mean you're looking forward to telling everyone what a tool she's been don't bother.

    Whoever you got legal advice from screwed you. Generally, kids matters get sorted first, so that money can't be used as a bargaining tool to trade for time with kids. Sadly, this does happen... But she's done one better, told you that you'd see the kids only after you screw yourself financially. You agreed, but you're not seeing the kids. So go give yourself a big uppercut, then come back and keep reading.

    My thoughts - Don't waste your time fighting the AVO. It will cost you money that you could better spend in family court. Realise that breaching the orders will really stuff up your case and could see you in jail. So do stuff like keep receipts.

    Story time.

    I had an avo. My ex loved going to the cops and claiming I'd breached it. Every time she made a claim I would have to go to the cop shop for a chat. Sometimes, I'd even have to leave work ASAP because the cop investigating it was about to knock off and he didn't wanna hang around. Try explaining that to the boss.

    Hey boss, just gotta go to the cop shop, if I'm not at work tomorrow it is 'cause I'm in jail.

    Anyways, eventually the cops started to work it out, one of the things that helped was a receipt for petrol that showed I was 100km away when she claimed I was sitting outside her house in my car. The cops said they have to investigate every complaint... I asked them to investigate my complaint that she was abusing the AVO. They said, no because I didn't have an AVO on her. Point being start playing smart.

    So off to family law court for you good. Yep, good.

    Read this
    Family Matters - Issue 88 - Shared care time | Australian Institute of Family Studies

    Especially the bit about court data.

    Now she is gonna lie through her teeth. Good. Magistrates are smart, they have seen it all before. But you must keep your nose clean. If you're a casual drug user, stop. If she knows you like a puff of a joint, she'll claim you're a drug addict and insist on drug screening.

    Play nice - There is this idea of the co-operative parent. The one who is willing to foster a positive relationship with the other parent. Be that parent....

    Now give yourself a pat on the back... Mate picking kids up from school is a great idea. It also means that she is less able to stop you seeing them. Even with court orders some parents prevent kids seeing the other parent. Mate next time you're at McDonalds, sit down and look over the parking lot.

    Within an hour you're likely to see a few blokes standing by their car, pacing about, glancing at their watch, looking at the entrance, checking their phones. They are waiting for the ex to drop off the kids. Some will go home without their kids and that is insanely sad to watch. Don't let yourself be there.

    But get yourself to court
     
  3. SG 66

    SG 66 Active Member

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    Hi Sammy01,

    Thanks for your reply. Some comments to try to clarify some things.

    "So the last thing you wrote about great conversations... If you mean you're looking forward to telling everyone what a tool she's been don't bother"

    Yes I know it was a bit of a last minute pun however I'm sure thats why she want the VRO to stay

    "Whoever you got legal advice from screwed you. Generally, kids matters get sorted first, so that money cant be used as a bargaining tool to trade for time with kids. Sadly this does happen... But she's done one better, told you that you'd see the kids only after you screw yourself financially. You agreed, but you're not seeing the kids. So go give yourself a big uppercut, then come back and keep reading. I was told that the cost of going to court would drain the funds and I would have posibly only got around what I will now anyway."

    There were two things I really had to consider. 1 what's best for the kids and 2 the business purchase is two good to pass on. I would have run out of time to purchase it and it is going to give me a good cash flow and the ability to stay near the kids schools and still only work about 22 hours a week. The money thing was important and if I had to give a bit now to gain a lot later so be it.

    I was also going broke really quick because of the way she destroyed the business we had.

    Thanks for the boxing tips too
    o_O

    "My thoughts - Don't waste your time fighting the AVO. It will cost you money that you could better spend in family court. Realise that breaching the orders will really stuff up your case and could see you in jail. So do stuff like keep receipts. STORYTIME. I had an avo. My ex loved going to the cops and claiming I'd breached it. Every time she made a claim I would have to go to the cop shop for a chat.... Sometimes, I'd even have to leave work ASAP because the cop investigating it was about to knock off and he didn't wanna hang around. Try explaining that to the boss. Hey boss, just gotta go to the cop shop, if I'm not at work tomorrow it is 'cause I'm in jail....... Anyways, eventually the cops started to work it out, one of the things that helped was a receipt for petrol that showed I was 100km away when she claimed I was sitting outside her house in my car. The cops said they have to investigate every complaint... I asked them to investigate my complaint that she was abusing the AVO.... They said, no because I didn't have an AVO on her.... Point being start playing smart."

    The VRO is just wrong and was used as a nuke at the time to inflict as much pain as she could. I've been told its about 10k to fight it. I feel that it needs to be proven that's she lied through her teeth and also it might make it harder to meet someone down the track plus professionally as well. It's hard sleeping waiting for the knock on the door and I know her and her old man would use it against me just for fun.

    "So off to family law court for you.Good. Yep GOOD."

    I was told in about 3 weeks.

    Read this
    Family Matters - Issue 88 - Shared care time | Australian Institute of Family Studies
    Especially the bit about court data.

    Very interesting thanks heaps for the link so it looks like I may have a good case to argue for that time with then.

    "Now she is gonna lie through her teeth. Good. Magistrates are smart, they have seen it all before. But you must keep your nose clean. IF you're a casual drug user, STOP. If she knows you like a puff of a joint, she'll claim you're a drug addict and insist on drug screening."

    Really no puff puff - bugger!! No, I've been a good boy. But apparently, I'm an alco as well. Funny thing is though she is the one with the DUI record from Chistmas 2014 it was just over .05

    Play nice - There is this idea of the co-operative parent. The one who is willing to foster a positive relationship with the other parent. Be that parent.

    Yes I will do. Its all about the kids and I have been doing that through the letters sent to her. Hers are full of put downs and saying yes to things and then changing her mind in the next one. That cant help her at court surely

    Now give yourself a pat on the back.... Mate picking kids up from school is a great idea. It also means that she is less able to stop you seeing them. Even with court orders some parents prevent kids seeing the other parent. Mate next time you're at Mc Donald's, sit down and look over the parking lot.... Within an hour you're likely to see a few blokes standing by their car, pacing about, glancing at their watch, looking at the enterance, checking their phones.... They are waiting for the ex to drop off the kids. Some will go home without their kids and that is insanely sad to watch. Don't let yourself be there.

    Yes, thanks mate I was trying to be a problem solver and I really don,t want anything thing to do with her and her blood-sucking family so if I can avoid them I will. Yes, I have seen the Dad's at McDonald's and through work what it does to the kids as well. I don't want that to be my kids anymore. I think she has done enough damage already.

    Thanks again for your response Sammy1


    But get yourself to court
     
  4. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    Mate you seem to have your head screwed on well.

    And on face value here it is easy to give thoughts - But each case is different and each individual within the case is different. There is lots about your case that is similar to mine. But not all...


    But I'll give you one more thought- I'm a teacher, my kids were on the AVO the ex took... Now the kids were at the primary school opposite where I worked at the high school.... Would have made things interesting if they were teenagers, I would not have been able to go to work because I wasn't allowed to go near the kids. So I was pretty bloody worried about how the AVO was gonna stuff my life about.

    It was actually the best thing that ever happened to me. Why? Well, when she realised that things were not all going her way and she needed money / needed a light bulb changed / or whatever and she started calling me / texting me. I called the cops said she was calling me and asking me to come to the house. They told me not to go no matter what and I left it at that.

    So for a whole year I was legally obliged not to talk to her. Best year of my life....

    Oops, sorry ranting. Now my understanding is the only people who really have to worry about AVO's are people whose employment requires them to carry a gun because AVO's cancel out gun licences. I'd check that one with a solicitor.

    Just to give you a little ray of sunshine. I didn't see my kids for a while courtesy of the avo. Eventually, I got 5 nights a fortnight. That was ok... But 18 months ago the ex dropped the kids off and left. She still sees them in the holidays etc, but these days I refer to her as "what's her name" because she is so insignificant to my life.
     
  5. SG 66

    SG 66 Active Member

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    Hi Sammy 01 reply in red again.

    Mate you seem to have your head screwed on well.

    Trying mate trying it's been really tough at times but I feel the tide is turning. (Great song by Rodger Waters by the way!

    And on face value here it is easy to give advice - But each case is different and each individual within the case is different. There is lots about your case that is similar to mine. But not all...

    The universe works in mysterious ways mate. I still believe thing happen for a reason and I new this was all coming but hung in there for the kids and unfortunately didn't expect the VRO with the kids on it coming to really stuff me up. So vindictive I just cant believe it, you think you know someone hay?

    It's something I wouldn't of dreamed of to do to a Mother or Father and it was all out of spite and I think shame at what she had done with her Dad. I blew him up at Xmas because I found out about the funds he never paid back and I was told he did (all in cash by the way) he he into me for around 500k but not as bad as his brother for so I hear 2 mil.

    He is also living in his brothers apartment in the middle of town (should be around 800 per week) and not paying a cent. His brother has asked him to leave but he wont. He has ruined his older brothers retirement.


    He is one of those Hollywood types you know thinks he is but he's not. A complete D C. On that though he has scammed everyone and kept his and his wife's lifestyle going, until now. X Perth city counselor and top notch bull s**t artist. He did a mate of his for 50k as well. One of those pricks that think they are just entitled to it.

    Sorry going off.... He lost a supreme court case at the end of Feb and was always going to lose (he had no loss to claim but bluffed his brother and my wife) and is flat broke now that's why my wife bought them a car while I was on an overseas business trip. About a week later my young bloke tells me Mum said would he mind if Grandma and Granddad moved in. Then I thought I was buggered then.

    I'm a real estate agent and have been for about 20 years now and the business purchase is a rent roll so I can go back to the management side of things and have time for the kids with an income still if I don't make any sales (I'm in WA its a bit stuffed over here at the moment sales wise) I can recover however I'm not sure she can without me, so i'm hoping to get the kids later sometime like you. Well done, love your work, that will learn her so to speak.


    But I'll give you one more thought- I'm a teacher, my kids were on the AVO the ex took... Now the kids were at the primary school opposite where I worked at the high school.... Would have made things interesting if they were teenagers, I would not have been able to go to work because I wasn't allowed to go near the kids. So I was pretty bloody worried about how the AVO was gonna stuff my life about.

    I can probably afford to defend it.


    It was actually the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm thinking that too, no more feeling like an ATM/ butler/uber driver / cook cleaner babysitter and all that side of it Why? Well, when she realized that things were not all going her way and she needed money / needed a light bulb changed / or whatever and she started calling me / texting me. I called the cops said she was calling me and asking me to come to the house. They told me not to go no matter what and I left it at that. She can bite me!!!!

    So for a whole year I was legally obliged not to talk to her. Best year of my life....

    Me too so far, just miss the kids heaps...

    Oops, sorry ranting. Now my understanding is the only people who really have to worry about AVO's are people whose employment requires them to carry a gun because AVO's cancel out gun licences. I'd check that one with a solicitor.Thanks Bud did all that, no need for a gun in real estate but it might help. ;)

    What state are you in Sammy01? No I didn't mean that I meant you know NSW,ACT,VIC,WA?
    I would realky like to catch up for a chat.. I

    f you like email me your phone number [Moderator redacted - Community Guidelines] I would love to catch up for a real chat...


    Just to give you a little ray of sunshine. I didn't see my kids for a while courtesy of the avo. Eventually, I got 5 nights a fortnight. That was ok... But 18 months ago the ex dropped the kids off and left. She still sees them in the holidays etc, but these days I refer to her as "what's her name" because she is so insignificant to my life.

    I can only live in hope mate!!
     
  6. sammy01

    sammy01 Well-Known Member

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    hey - I'm in NSW....

    The law forum here seems to edit anything to do with personal email accounts. Mate this place is great for legal help...

    Can i strongly recommend you look for services such as mensline to help deal with some of the emotional stuff. I believe they also have a forum.

    Well worth a look to get some advice on dealing with the stress.... and getting some advice from some blokes who have been there too.

    Help, Support & Counselling Services For Men | MensLine Australia
     
  7. Reginald

    Reginald Active Member

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    My opinion on what to do to contest

    1. Go through affidavit sentence by sentence, phrase by phrase to collate what you have contrary – texts, emails, witnesses.

    2. Create a matching document, paragraph by paragraph; which includes the evidence that you have that supports your version of events. Spend a week or going over it again and again, make sure you have everything. Mine was a living document for ages. Add context to the situations that are described, because of course full context is not given by the complainant, as it usually makes them look bad.

    3. Share with your solicitor. My solicitor prepared my family court papers with this information, and it provided all the information for what would have been used in the cross and direct examinations (we haven’t done this yet, see my thread).

    4. Get Family court papers in a served on the complainant ahead of the hearing date. It just might make a difference as to whether the complainant might drop the order, or, they might not.

    Good luck !
     
  8. teflongirl

    teflongirl Well-Known Member

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    Fight the AVO that goes on your record and also here in WA Child protection takes note of it. I'm representing myself and fighting the VRO (in WA). I've got copies of all of the affidavits and the court transcripts and I'm happy to cross examine the other party and hopefully she will perjure herself.

    I'd also apply for a variation of the AVO to have the children's names removed if she doesn't agree to this so what it goes to trial.

    Let us know how you go on.
     
  9. SG 66

    SG 66 Active Member

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    Thanks for the info. I've been to court to try to get the kids removed but no luck there. Fathers day coming up and one of my daughters birthdays and now she is saying she want to get legal advice about letting me see them.

    I have a court date about the kids at the end of September and then the VRO date about a week after.

    We have agreed to the financial split and she has changed her mind once and now is still holding it up by asking for more money because child support won't be what she was expecting. My income has been next to nothing because I was working from the home office when I was given the VRO and it took 14 weeks to get the net on and part of my office equipment from her. The business in that time was severely compromised in that time and it's been nearly impossible to come back from the damage done.

    I have things ready for the family court about the kids. I need the money from her to buy a new business that she was all happy with before but now wants me to take even less money so I wouldn't be able to purchase it.

    She has until the end of this week to agree or I will have to go to court and fight for my money that she agreed to give me before. The money was from the sale of our family home that was deposited in a joint account and then she transferred it into her name only over the net.

    My solicitor is saying we will have to go to court to make her pay it over. If that's the case I will lose the opportunity to buy the business and support my children. How can I make her see any sense? It's just horrible.
     

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