WA Released on Bail if Presumed Innocent Until Proven Guilty?

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Pete pan

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2 January 2017
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If I was to be arrested, not being on any orders or any other charges, and was remanded in custody at my court appearance, and if I asked the judge if I was presumed innocent until proven guilty, would they agree and therefore have to release me on bail?
 

Pete pan

Well-Known Member
2 January 2017
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So really, even presumed innocent, they can still imprison someone, say, if they missed the last court date. Isn't that unconstitutional?
 

Gorodetsky

Well-Known Member
21 February 2016
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Pete,

I'm not a solicitor.

As the link suggests... There is a presumption to grant bail...But if the accused has failed to show up to court previously....It's easy for the police to prove that bail ought not be granted.

Look, I think bail gets a presumption of innocence as far as there is a presumption to grant bail and the onus is on the cops to prove otherwise. I think the primary purpose for bail is to make sure the accused turns up to court and doesn't continue committing crimes.

Break those conditions, eg fail to turn up to court, and the police can prove you shouldn't get bail.

I don't know whether the constitution comes into it....

Regards
 

Rod

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asked the judge if i was pressured innocent until proven guilty would they agree and therefore have to release me on bail?

No

isn't that unconstitutional?

No. Our Australian and State constitutions are very weak on human rights. Courts take a dislike to people missing court dates. Shows a lack of respect for the court system. So why would you annoy judges by missing a court date and then ask them to do you a favour? Would you do a favour to someone who shows disrespect to you?

Suspect it is time to grow up Peter Pan.
 

Pete pan

Well-Known Member
2 January 2017
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Haha I haven't shown the court disrespect, I'm just asking just to find out. I was just curious if one is presumed innocent until proven guilty, then how do people get remanded in custody until trial and that I expect it for people that have defined bail multiple times or for the highest level crimes.

But besides that, it confuses me if presumed innocent, isn't putting an innocent person in jail wrong? I asked my questions to be informed about the actual law of jailing people that you believe are innocent has to be wrong and if you are jailed before proven guilty, then that judge has taken a stance or position before hearing all evidence.

Does anyone else think this is wrong?
 

Rod

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I think the current system is OK. May not be ideal, but still better than many other countries.

Being in held in remand protects the community from the offender while the justice system kick into gear and arranges a trial. Criminals can blame other criminals for re-offending while on bail. If no-one re-offended while on bail then the system would allow bail 100% of the time.

The judge deciding bail is not the judge hearing the trial and of no relevance when there is a jury as the jury decides guilt or innocence not the judge.
 

Pete pan

Well-Known Member
2 January 2017
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It would only be protecting the community if the person was guilty and the crime was putting others in danger what if the person wasn't guilty of the crime they were accused of and then does a year or 18 months before start trial then gets found not guilty with the current system I'm pretty sure that Person would get no compensation for that time only if found guilty then did time then appeal the verdict and get found not guilty this could potentially ruin someone's life being pressumed innocent but locked up for a crime they didn't commit for in most cases approximately 9 months but in some cases uptown 2 years before trial
 

Gorodetsky

Well-Known Member
21 February 2016
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Hi Pete,

From the link i posted early on:
"When a court is deciding whether or not to grant bail, the following considerations may be taken into account:

• the seriousness of the offence;

• the need for the accused to prepare a defence;

• the severity of the punishment if the accused is found guilty;

• how long the accused might be held in custody before their case can be heard;

• any past instances where the accused has failed to appear before the court after the granting of bail;

• the likelihood of the accused to re-offend while out on bail.


In making a decision on whether to grant bail – as well as the attaching of any conditions associated with the bail – the courts must balance the interests of the accused, and the protection of the community and the victim."

You are considering the matter with only the accused persons rights in mind...

I don't have any opinion about it being "right" or "wrong"....You should ask that of your member of parliament...

Regards
Gorodetsky
 

Tim W

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If I was to be arrested, not being on any orders or any other charges, and was remanded in custody at my court appearance, and if I asked the judge if I was presumed innocent until proven guilty, would they agree and therefore have to release me on bail?
Everybody is presumed innocent.
That's not what bail is about.

In general and very simplified terms, to be on bail is to be at liberty
between the time of charging and the time of trial.
This liberty can be conditional ("bail conditions").

In WA, both the police and courts can grant bail.
Who does what depends on the offence and the facts and circumstances.

The criteria for bail (and any attached conditions) are really quite simple,
and boil down to three things:
  • To ensure that you will actually turn up to court as and when required; and
  • To ensure that you will not commit new or further offences in the time between arrest and trial.
    (this can include interfering with witnesses or evidence); and
  • To provide greater safety of the accused, safety of others (such as victims or survivors),
    and safety of the community generally.
Bail is not a function of how likely it is that you are guilty of whatever it is that you are charged with.

Have a read of this.
One other thing - Whatever offence you are contemplating,
that prompted you to ask your original question, don't commit it.