WA Family Law - Facilitating Contact Between Grandparents?

[karen olliver]

I have a legal question regarding my son's current interim court orders until a final hearing later this year. The orders say that the child resides with the father and that the mother is restrained by injunctions to have contact with the child except supervised by the Paternal Grandmother or at a facility when one becomes available.

Since attending family court recently, the orders are still the same except my son has consented to the Maternal Grandparents having contact with the child, but was under the impression that I would be present, as on the day the Magistrate asked myself directly, the Paternal Grandmother, if I would be fine with doing a visit with both the grandparents, and that the grandmothers can agree on times between ourselves.

My question in regard for this is, in the orders they say: "By consent, until further order of the court, the applicant, facilitate the maternal grandmother and her husband having contact with the child, at times as agreed between the maternal and the paternal grandmothers."

In Family Law, what does the above order mean? Does the father propose where and when these contacts will occur, and who he would like to be present with the child, or does the order already mean that the Grandmothers are to agree on a time that will suit all, because they will be both present at the visit?

 

[Atticus]

. My question in regard for this is, in the orders they say, By consent, until further order of the court, the applicant, facilitate the maternal grandmother and her husband having contact with the child, at times as agreed between the maternal and the paternal grandmothers. In the Family Law what does the above order mean?

From my reading, you (the paternal GM) facilitate ( make contcat with & take action to allow) the two maternal grandparents contact with the child as agreed between the two grandmothers.

 

[GlassHalfFull]

It doesn't sound entirely clear to me either, but my understanding is that your son, as the primary carer, can (and is invited to) delegate the responsibility to you and you can make the decision about how and where and when to facilitate it, or he can essentially intervene if he chooses to, especially since the previous order gave you the responsibility for supervising the mother directly.

As with many family court orders, a certain amount of common sense does need to prevail (as Sammy would love to tell us all), but in an ideal world, the orders will be prescriptive enough that there is little doubt about how to interpret them. With the latest orders, is there a line that says all previous orders are dismissed or are the most recent orders additional to the previous orders? That could make a difference...

You also haven't mentioned if there is a supervision schedule in place between you and the other party... Is it totally at your discretion? That seems strange, usually, a basic schedule of contact is needed to establish routine and consistency. Otherwise, it's just an invitation for a difficult parent to withhold the children and there's nothing in the orders to prevent it.

 

[Jake Matherson]

We've all had a go at this one

Are there any orders preventing dad from attending?
Or he just doesn't want to be around the maternal grandparents?

Sounds like dad can do whatever he wants but he has been Ordered to allow the maternal grandparents some time.
Is there an Order in there that says something like "time spent by agreement and failing agreement in accordance with these orders"

If he has that Order it's up to you all to work it out times and places and provided dad agrees on the plan you're all good to go.
If you can't all come to an agreement then it appears that the Paternal and Maternal grandmother will work out a time and place to meet.
Dad will hand over the child and the Paternal grandmother will take the child for the meeting, supervise and bring the child back at the end.

Ideally, he will have the "by agreement" clause and you all just communicate and work it out and that specific Order is just a fall back if you don't agree.

 

[GlassHalfFull]

Ideally he will have the "by agreement" clause and you all just communicate and work it out and that specific Order is just a fall back if you don't agree.

Maybe it's just my experience but I've never seen orders that don't provide a schedule of contact. If it's 100% negotiated by agreement, what's stopping the father from withholding, or at least pretending to negotiate but being so difficult that negotiation breaks down and is unworkable? The whole point of going to court about parenting matters is to get some clarity about parenting and contact, and it doesn't sound like there's much of it there.

 

[Atticus]

Does the father propose where and when these contacts will occur, and who he would like to be present with the child, or does the order already mean that the Grandmothers are to agree on a time that will suit all, because they will be both present at the visit.

The latter... The father has agreed at last court attendance to allow Maternal GP's to be present.. That's the only 'new' thing in the orders.... As this involves the GP's, the orders leave it to them to arrange times to suit.

 

[karen olliver]

It doesn't sound entirely clear to me either, but my understanding is that your son, as the primary carer, can (and is invited to) delegate the responsibility to you and you can make the decision about how and where and when to facilitate it, or he can essentially intervene if he chooses to, especially since the previous order gave you the responsibility for supervising the mother directly. As with many family court orders, a certain amount of common sense does need to prevail (as Sammy would love to tell us all), but in an ideal world, the orders will be prescriptive enough that there is little doubt about how to interpret them. With the latest orders, is there a line that says all previous orders are dismissed, or are the most recent orders additional to the previous orders? That could make a difference... You also haven't mentioned if there is a supervision schedule in place between you and the other party... Is it totally at your discretion? That seems strange, usually a basic schedule of contact is needed to establish routine and consistency. Otherwise it's just an invitation for a difficult parent to withhold the children and there's nothing in the orders to prevent it.

We've all had a go at this one

Are there any orders preventing dad from attending ?
Or he just doesn't want to be around the maternal grandparents?

Sounds like dad can do whatever he wants but he has been Ordered to allow the maternal grandparents some time.
Is there an Order in there that says something like "time spent by agreement and failing agreement in accordance with these orders"

If he has that Order it's up to you all to work it out times and places and provided dad agrees on the plan you're all good to go.
If you can't all come to an agreement then it appears that the Paternal and Maternal grandmother will work out a time and place to meet.
Dad will hand over the child and the Paternal grandmother will take the child for the meeting, supervise and bring the child back at the end.

Ideally he will have the "by agreement" clause and you all just communicate and work it out and that specific Order is just a fall back if you don't agree.

I have a legal question regarding my sons current interim court orders until a final hearing later this year, the orders say that the child resides with the father, and that the mother is restrained by injunctions to have contact with the child except supervised by the Paternal Grandmother or at a facility when one becomes available. Since attending court recently the orders are still the same except my son has consented to the Maternal Grandparents having contact with the child, but was under the impression that I would be present, as On the day the Magistrate asked myself directly, the Paternal Grandmother if I would be fine with doing a visit with both the Grandparents, and that the grandmothers can agree on times between ourselves. My question in regard for this is, in the orders they say, By consent, until further order of the court, the applicant, facilitate the maternal grandmother and her husband having contact with the child, at times as agreed between the maternal and the paternal grandmothers. In the Family Law what does the above order mean? Does the father propose where and when these contacts will occur, and who he would like to be present with the child, or does the order already mean that the Grandmothers are to agree on a time that will suit all, because they will be both present at the visit.

Thanks for the feedback. To answer a few of your questions, no there isn't anything written in the order that says "time spent by Agreement'. It only says that the father is to facilitate maternal grandparents contact with the child, at times agreed between Grandmothers.

My son and I both assumed that these contacts are to occur with myself and my Maternal Grandparents. I do however think that this seems strange also as the magistrate wasn't specific or clear on how or when these contacts are to occur, so this has left me confused as the orders don't exactly say that I am to leave the child with them alone, or stay with him either.

My son also does not communicate with the child's mother or the maternal family as they are unfortunately difficult to deal with.

The previous orders are still in place, this has just been added to them. As for a supervised schedule, there isn't one between myself and the Maternal Grandparents but there is a supervised time spent with the child between myself and their daughter, but only until a professional facility is available.

 

[sammy01]

Please type the exact wording of the orders and calm down. Common sense.

So is there actually a dispute about the meaning?

 

[rjm]

Sammy what makes you think that Karen isn't calm?

 

[okanynameyouwishthen]

pls type the exact wording of the orders
AND calm down. Common sense.

So is there actually a dispute about the meaning?

cause he wrote the book apparently.