NSW Ex partner not letting me see my son

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Aimee11

Active Member
29 January 2020
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0
31
Hi - I am new here, so I really appreciate any advice in advance. Sorry if this is long.

I am in a pretty terrible situation, my partner of 15 months with whom we have an 8 month old son has thrown me out of the house and is now dictating when I can see my son. He threatens he will call the police if I come near the house. I called the police too to get my son back and they said there's nothing they can do.

He was initially refusing to let me see my son, however given my constant begging is now allowing me to have him for three days a week. My friends and family have told me to just keep my son and not give him back, and sometimes I wonder whether to do this but I just don't know what to do. I am afraid to challenge him for the following reasons:
- he has threatened he will call my employer and tell them about my post natal depression (I desperately need my job), he says he will get me sacked
- I am worried this would not look good if this should go before the courts
- He is accusing me of mental illness (post natal depression) and poor parenting and is claiming he will 'take me to court' to get sole parental responsibility. We had a major fallout and so I don't know how much of this is coming from his anger towards me.

I want to see my son, I want to see him every day, I cry every night. I was his primary carer until my partner threw me out. There wasn't any domestic violence or abuse or anything in our relationship but he was very controlling about money.

Should I be worried about his threats with the mental illness? I had pretty severe post natal depression and saw a psychiatrist and got put on medication but was doing really well after that. But he is threatening he will subpoena my medical records. My mum can confirm I was doing a great job as a mother.

Is there anything I can do? I am desperate to see him and don't know how the whole system works but it sounds like proceedings can drag out for months and maybe years and I don't want to miss half of my son's infancy - is there anything I can do as an emergency?
 

GlassHalfFull

Well-Known Member
28 August 2018
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2,289
I don't think your mum is likely to count as an impartial witness to assist your case. However, the threats he's made will likely not serve him very well at all, unless he can somehow demonstrate that he was acting protectively towards your baby. I really doubt your employer is going to come down hard on you for post natal depression for example. It's by its very nature related to the hormones following birth and generally resolves itself - so in this case, past events are unlikely to dictate future events and it will look quite vindictive if he's seen to be trying to control and manipulate you via your employer.

The only thing you can do at this point is try to enter into mediation with him. That's the first step. You'd need to have attempted mediation before initiating family law proceedings anyway.

You've kind of brushed over your parenting and the major fallout though. Are you still breastfeeding? I assume not if you haven't mentioned it? What is he saying to justify his actions? Does he have a point? I'm not saying he definitely does, but it's worth asking yourself what he's doing and why.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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how long has this been going on?
I would not worry about him contacting your employer. If anything he will look like a twit for doing that.

BE HONEST... Does dad have any reason to think you are a risk to yourself or the child?
 

Aimee11

Active Member
29 January 2020
6
0
31
Thanks guys, that is really helpful and yes I guess he does have reason to justify why he is behaving this way. My depression was pretty severe, not hospital or suicidal severe, but severe enough that I was finding it difficult to get out of the house, or eat or sleep, I was barely coping. All my energy was focused on our son. I was definitely never a risk to our baby but I certainly wasn't looking after myself very well at all. My ex had told me heaps of times to see somebody but I was just too exhausted and couldn't bring myself to. He eventually cracked it. He threw me out in December, the first week he didn't let me see our baby at all, the second week he let me have him for one overnight, the third week for two nights and this week I have had him for three nights. I have also been seeing a psychiatrist, taking medication and have started having therapy. No I wasn't still breastfeeding.

I can understand and see how he feels he is being protective, my depression was pretty severe, but he still isn't trusting me even though I've been getting treatment, he seems to think he can decide all the times when I can see our son. I am worried this might continue. I feel like I have no voice. There is no structure or routine at all, he just texts me and says he's bringing him over and then texts me and says he's picking him up. When I ask when I can see our baby again, he says he'll have to think about it. It's such a horrible situation.

We are going to mediation next week, I really want to resume my role as our son's primary carer but I am worried my ex will not agree, I am also very worried about his threats that he wishes to gain sole responsibility. I really don't know how I would fight this, it would be his word against mine but I am the one with the documented mental illness now.
 

GlassHalfFull

Well-Known Member
28 August 2018
544
51
2,289
Well, sounds like mistakes have been made on both sides, and I don't know his side of the story but it seems sad that the relationship ended like that with a young baby caught in the crossfire.

I guess all of this could be resolved in mediation, but I would certainly raise the following issues if it were me in your position:

1. He needs to treat you like an adult. At the moment, the way he is controlling access and not providing you with a regular schedule needs to change at the very minimum.
2. What does he think the long term arrangements should be? Does he believe that you will continue to be an unfit parent indefinitely, or is he simply being cautious? You need some clarity around his intentions.
3. That you now have professional assistance and medication is managing the illness. You are not in the bad place you were. As I said, past events do not dictate future events.

A few more questions... Are you working currently or are you on maternity leave? Where do you currently live? Would you have any family support to substantially help you with day to day care if you were to get your son back with you? Does your ex work? Part time, full time? If he's working, who is looking after the baby while he is working? If you were to resume being the primary carer, what would the arrangement look like? Would your son be placed into daycare? If your ex were to be the sole carer, what would his arrangements be?

I don't really know how the courts views post natal depression but I assume it would be on a case-by-case basis, and with the benefit of psychological reports (not only historic, but current). I think if it is suitably managed and you are able to manage the care of the child, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able given substantial time and potentially the primary care again. The only concern is, the longer he has the baby full time, the harder it will be to change the arrangements when it comes time for the court to make a decision. I certainly don't want to recommend that you do keep the baby and refuse to return it, especially if there is still the risk that you won't be able to cope, but he's already playing that game and there's nothing strictly speaking stopping you from doing the same. Of course once you do that, the stakes are raised and then I'm sure you would feel very wary about giving him any time with the child because then he may just do the same to you again and by then trust is likely to be completely destroyed, along with any chance of a positive outcome from mediation. I don't have any great suggestions for how to handle it. It's a sad fact that being fair and reasonable doesn't often work out best for the side who doesn't have the children. But being seen to be vindictive and using a child in a power struggle between ex partners doesn't look good either. It's a situation with no winners...
 

Jesso

Well-Known Member
2 February 2020
28
3
124
Go to court and get a recovery order.
Sounds like the ex partner is using domestic violence, the threats to call police, using your mental health issues etc..
Try speaking to the police about an Domestic Violence order or Avo depending on location and it may help with his behaviour because atm what he is doing isn't fair on you or your child. He is using your child to hold power over you! Keep any messages/texts and try to only text when communicating so it can be used as proof.
When you get your son you don't have to give him back as there's nothing in place atm.
You definitely need to apply to mediation and get the certificate to start the court process. If you feel you can do it.

Not sure your location but you need to find a local support organization that can help you to work out your next move.
 

GlassHalfFull

Well-Known Member
28 August 2018
544
51
2,289
Hold on Jesso. I'm definitely sympathetic to the OP and think she should be entitled to more dignity and respect than the ex partner is providing her with, but don't overstep. The ex is not "using her child to hold power over her". He is protecting his child against potential neglect due to mental illness, which the OP has admitted to, and which he is fully entitled to do, just as any mother is entitled to protect a child from neglect from the father. And like I said, I am sympathetic, but I also suspect that we don't yet know the full story as we haven't heard from him and what concerns he has, so to assume that this is all just a power game using children as pawns is jumping the gun big time.

Mothers can be bad parents and fathers can be good parents, you know. I'm certainly not calling the OP a 'bad parent', but I do think that you need to look at this from the best interests of the child, not in terms of solidarity of women as victims of domestic violence. You said "When you get your son you don't have to give him back as there's nothing in place atm.". Yes, true. But aren't you essentially advising her to be as bad, if not worse than him? At least he is CLAIMING to have a valid reason for withholding the child (concern about mental illness and fitness to look after a child) and he is not completely withholding, just ensuring the contact is measured.

If you suggest withholding the child from him, you're doing so despite there being ZERO credible justification for it, at least from a best interests of the child perspective. You're essentially saying that you're willing to put the mother's interests in a power struggle with the father higher than the interests of the child. In my opinion, that is bad advice. It happens all the time in family law, but it's still bad advice.
 

sammy01

Well-Known Member
27 September 2015
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Hey Jesso - AVO's are not clever tricks to get advantage in family law.... (well they should not be). There is no DV here by the OP's own admission, there is a reason for dad to have concerns. Whether or not those concerns are warranted is hard to say.

My main gripe with your advice is it is adversarial. Especially the bit about not giving the kid back. Isn't that what we're criticising the dad for doing?
Right now mum has 3 days a week. So 6 a fortnight.... Given mum has conceded she has had some mental health issues and is on the improve this is all positive. Aimee - the best thing you can do is be reasonable and be patient. Work on your mental health. All of that looks better in court and there is a reason why.... It shows that you're doing the best thing for the child and if you make that your focus you're a good parent. If you make your situation about conflict your hair will go grey, your mental health will deteriorate and all of this is bad for the kid.
 

Jesso

Well-Known Member
2 February 2020
28
3
124
My reply is based on what OP has written! You guys are claiming there isn't dv but there is and op has stated so in her post.
I stand by what I said. And think based on what's been said it's reasonable advice!
The Avi or dvo isn't for family court but for op and how the ex interacts with her. And hopefully it will stop the threats. Do you think it's okay to hold someones mental health over them and to threaten their livelyhood like job? Because that's not okay. And not helpful for OP at all.
 
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GlassHalfFull

Well-Known Member
28 August 2018
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Okay, part of the problem here is that the legal definition of domestic violence has been drawn up to be incredibly broad and wide-reaching, especially if you are willing to stretch the truth a bit. So sure, it's conceivable that what the ex has done is borderline or perhaps even slightly exceeded the threshold for DV. But you have to also look at context to make a sensible decision. Context is everything.

Consider this thought experiment.

Partner A and partner B have an argument. It gets very heated and partner A pushes partner B. Partner B pushes partner A back again. Partner A punches partner B in the chest. Partner B physically restrains partner A and holds them against the wall to stop further attacks.

Now, would partner A have a claim of DV against partner B for "pushing them and physically restraining them"? Yes, in isolation, that sounds like a classic case of DV, doesn't it? But we both know that's not the full story. Partner A was the one that struck first, and was the only partner that landed a punch, and partner B was mainly responding to violence with similar physicality, ultimately preventing it from getting worse. Looking at both sides, I would say that partner A was more deserving of an receiving an AVO than partner B, but if partner A went to the police and told only their side of the story and said nothing about what they did to cause the reaction from partner B, they might well convince the police that THEY were the victim of sudden and unprovoked violence.

Now let's bring it back to Aimee's case. You say that she has grounds to call what he is doing DV. Yeah, in isolation, explaining only what HE did to HER, she might sound convincing. But I see this as a case somewhat similar to the thought experiment. He is REACTING to an unsafe situation in which Aimee possibly was not looking after the children with the necessary attention, and he has felt it necessary to use a certain amount of control to ensure the safety of his child. Yes, the result is that Aimee feels controlled. But were his actions justified? Maybe? Probably? We don't know for sure because he doesn't have a voice here. But what we can say for sure is that this isn't an open and shut case. There are definitely two sides to it, and Aimee has reasonably explained that she did have some faults and that his actions were the result of her mental illness. I can't fault Aimee for her honesty.

At the VERY least, it does NOT seem justified to remove the children from him completely when all things considered, he may actually be the more stable parent to look after a young and vulnerable child at present. By suggesting an AVO, you are actually calling for the 'nuclear option'. The strongest possible response. A response that is stronger and harsher than anything he has done to her up to that point. He is controlling her access to her child, sure, but YOU are saying she should completely PREVENT his access to HIS child, in a situation where she may actually still have some lingering mental illness concerns. This is not something that should be rushed into. While I'm certainly not saying Aimee hasn't or cannot fully recover, the fact is, the sensible course of action is probably for a trained professional to monitor her progress and consider incremental increases in her time and responsibility with the child.

Think about everything I've said, can you honestly say, without being biased by the genders of the people involved in this, that it is the best outcome for all concerned?

And now bringing gender back into it, if Aimee had taken the child away from the father, controlling HIS access to his child because he had previously suffered from mental illness and had not been looking after the child with sufficient attention, would you be suggesting to the father that HE should take out an AVO on the mother to remove the child from her? I doubt it actually. From my experience, women/mothers often perceive that they have inherent additional value to their children over the father's value. But please tell me I'm wrong. I'd love to hear that you would see it the same way if the genders were reversed.
 
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