VIC Criminal Law - Accused of Obtaining Goods by Deception?

[Shaneo]

We got robbed back in March of this year and have been waiting patiently for an outcome. The other day, I got arrested for obtaining goods by deception. The problem is that we haven't done that.

One of the pics we sent to the insurance came back saying it was taken 10 days after the robbery with an item that was stolen, which is impossible as we do not own the property anymore as it was stolen. The only thing we can think of is that our autistic 8-year-old son that enjoys changing languages and dates on phones tablets, etc. has changed the date on the phone or camera that we had been using at the time and now apparently that's the grounds for the charge of obtaining goods by deception.

Not sure what I have to do now under criminal law. Do I just wait to be fully charged or is there a way I can rectify this situation before that occurs?

 

[Danny Jovica]

Your story seems implausible. I am not calling you a liar, but to claim an autistic child is to blame for changing the dates is a far stretch. Have you seen the photo in question? What is the item? Why the uncertainty whether the photo was from a camera or phone? Were they supplied a digital copy or print-out ?

What Section of What Act(s) have you been charged with? Have you seen the brief of evidence yet ?

 

[Shaneo]

Hi Danny,

Actually it's very plausible. He still does it to this day. Last week, my phone said it was 2012. So a far stretch it's not and the uncertainty whether or not it was from a phone or camera is that our kids play with both and having a box full of memory cards doesn't exactly make it easy to figure what a pic was taken with over 2 years ago we even found pics digitally dated 2019.

The pic was digital and it was my partner's engagement ring and an eternity ring given to her by her grandmother before she passed away. Even offered to the police to search our house, offered stat decs but refused both..

 

[Gorodetsky]

Hi Shaneo,

I'm not a solicitor.

Wait and see if they charge you.

They have to prove, beyond reasonable doubt you committed the crime. All they have is that the date on the photo file is wrong? That all?

There are a hundred reasons why the date might be wrong. One possible reason is your kid, there is plenty of others.

Do you have a copy of every files you gave them?
Is the files created/modified date wrong? Or is it in the meta data?
If the photo was taken with a smartphone, they often sync their date and time to the network...(it would be suggest the photos were indeed taken after the robbery).
Cameras often number their files incrementally, so if you can find all the photos, it might help you down the track.

Of course, you need to wait and see if you are charged by the cops.

Do you reckon your insurance us gonna pay?

Regards,

 

[Danny Jovica]

It is unclear still. Are you saying that there was a search and seizure of a box of memory cards the police got hold of?

Also you didn't reply what specifically have you been charged with and have you seen the information brief ?

 

[Shaneo]

Hi Danny, sorry, I didn't specify a bit clearer earlier.

Nothing has been seized. All pictures and documents that they had requested was given to the insurance company, and out of 15 to 20 pics, they found one that had a questionable digital date. The mem card comment was to point out we have had that many devices that have taken all different sizes of mem cards in the past 13 years and they are all in one box.

That's why I'm not sure what each card came from, so that's why I'm unsure what the pics have been taken with. I haven't actually seen any information brief and I'm not sure what im going to be charged with or even if I'm going to be charges.

I'm just going off what the police said to me when they arrested me. I've never been in trouble with the police before, not even a speeding ticket. I don't even know if they followed proper procedure for this sort of thing.

 

[Shaneo]

Hi Shaneo,
I'm not a solicitor.
Wait and see if they charge you.

They have to prove, beyond reasonable doubt you committed the crime. All they have is that the date on the photo file is wrong? That all?

There are a hundred reasons why the date might be wrong. One possible reason is your kid, there is plenty of others.

Do you have a copy of every files you gave them?
Is the files created/modified date wrong? Or is it in the meta data?
If the photo was taken with a smartphone, they often sync their date and time to the network...(it would be suggest the photos were indeed taken after the robbery).
Cameras often number their files incrementally, so if you can find all the photos, it might help you down the track.

Of course, you need to wait and see if you are charged by the cops.

Do you reckon your insurance us gonna pay?

Regards,
Gorodetsky

Hi Gorodetsky,

As far as I know, yes, all they have is that one pic. and the insurance has paid out some of the claim (1st insurance claim ever lodged). It's only when we pointed out they had supplied some of the the wrong items all this started happening we even tried saving them money by getting stuff repaired but they didn't want a bar of it (repair cost $165 replacement costs over $900). There are pics we found that have created dates of 2001, 2018, 2019, 2022, etc.

Like I said before, my son likes randomly pushing buttons on devices. It's what he does to keep himself occupied and when he has the phone, we usually disconnect Data and wifi so he can't purchase things from the app stores like he has in the past, so if he did change the date, the network would not have synced the files taken until the options had been turned back on.

I know as I tried this last night on my S6

 

[Christian Farrelly]

Hi Shaneo,

It sounds like you will be facing possible charges of obtaining property by deception or obtaining financial advantage by deception, depending on the exact circumstances. They are very similar charges in any event. To prove a charge of obtaining property by deception Police need to prove the following things beyond reasonable doubt:

1. You obtained ownership, possession or control of property;
2. That you did so dishonestly.
3. That you did so using deception.
4. That the property obtained belonged to a third person.
5. That you obtained or enabled another to obtain this property with the intention of permanently depriving the third party of it.

It sounds like you have been interviewed by Police and you gave them the explanation you stated above. If that is the case, the Police will now review the matter and determine whether they will file charges. The decision to prosecute is based on 2 considerations, whether it is in the public interest and whether there is a reasonable prospect of securing a conviction.

If they think they have enough evidence to secure a conviction, then they will likely file charges. Their decision would also be influenced by things such as the value of the goods obtained; whether they believe your explanation (which seems plausible); and whether there is any other evidence on your cameras and photos of altered times and dates etc. that support your explanation. No doubt the insurer is keen for them to prosecute, so they can avoid paying the whole claim.

Sections 81 & 82 of the Crimes Act 1958 are where you will find the relevant offences, here is a link to section 81: CRIMES ACT 1958 - SECT 81Obtaining property by deception

If you are charged, you should get legal advice. As you have no priors, the penalty for such an offence if proven would largely be related to the value of the goods obtained.

Cheers.

Christian Farrelly, Melbourne Lawyer: Book Online | LawTap

 

[Shaneo]

Thank you so much Mr. Farrelly that has given my more info than the 200 phone calls I have made since I got arrested.

Kindest regards

 

[Iamthelaw]

In addition to the above responses: This would be fairly easy to dismiss. Images more than often contain an encoded date and time stamp which capture the exact date and time and even in some instances location of when the image was taken (hidden and only accessible via cr2 registry files or similar).

Having a solicitor take the original image to a computer forensic professional for analysis could very well be an easy way out of this.