NSW Consent Orders - Are Proposal Orders Made Fair?

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MummyOf2

Well-Known Member
18 September 2015
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Hi.

I currently have an open case in the family court. I originally applied for a recovery order and interim/final orders. I have been to the interim hearing and currently have interim orders in place. I know that the next hearing is a directions hearing. I don't know what comes after that. A trial hearing is my guess?

In the meantime, I have been reading through a lot of the threads on here and trying to learn the fairest way to remain my son's primary carer whilst being generous with the time my ex gets with our son. I have typed up what I will be asking the court for when we finally go to court for the final time and have permanent consent orders in place.

What I have come up with is a combination of the original parenting plan, the current interim orders, issues that have been disputed between myself and my ex, protection from further harassment from my ex's wife and in-laws and trying to avoid my ex and his wife retaining my son from me again.

Is the following fair and are there any helpful suggestions I can think about in order to make these orders better: (Too many characters so in the next message)
 

MummyOf2

Well-Known Member
18 September 2015
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1. The child live with the mother.



2. The child spend time with the father during NSW gazetted school terms in a two week rotation as follows:



a. WEEK 1: Tuesday from after school until Wednesday before school with the father only attending upon school property.



b. WEEK 2: Tuesday from after school with the father only attending upon school property until 7:30pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property. From Friday after school until Monday before school with the father only attending upon school property.



3. The child spend time with the father during NSW gazetted school holidays as follows:



a. The first week of all school holiday periods following terms 1, 2 and 3 from 9:30am on the first Sunday of the school holiday period until 9:30am on the following Sunday of the school holiday period with the father only attending upon the mothers property.



b. A week on week off arrangement during the Christmas holiday period commencing 9:30am the first Sunday of the school holiday period until 9:30am the following Sunday and continued every second week thereafter with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



4. The child spend time with the father Christmas Day as follows:



a. From 6pm Christmas eve until 2pm Christmas Day on even numbered years with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



b. From 2pm Christmas day until 6pm Boxing Day on odd numbered years with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



5. The child spend time with the father on the child’s birthday as follows:



a. If the child’s birthday falls on a school day, overnight with pickup from school and return to school the next morning with the father only attending upon school property.

b. If the child’s birthday falls on a Friday or Saturday during the school term from 3pm with pickup from the school on Friday with the father only attending upon school property or from the mothers home on Saturday with the father only attending upon the mother's property until 9am the following morning with the father only attending upon the mothers property.



c. If the child’s birthday falls on a Sunday from 3 pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property and returned to school the following morning with the father only attending upon school property.



d. If during the fathers week during the school holidays, the child return home for 8 hours commencing 10am until 6pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property.



e. If during the mother's week during the school holidays for a period of 8 hours commencing 10am until 6pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property.



6. The child spend time with the father on the fathers birthday as follows:



a. If the father's birthday falls on a school day, overnight with pickup from school and return to school the following morning with the father only attending upon school property.



b. If the father's birthday falls on a Friday or Saturday during the school term from 3pm with pickup from the school on Friday with the father only attending upon school property or from the mothers home on Saturday with the father only attending upon the mother's property until 9am the following morning with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



c. If the father's birthday falls on a Sunday from 3 pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property and returned to school the following morning with the father only attending upon school property.



d. If the father's birthday falls on the mother's week during the school holidays for a period of 8 hours commencing 10am until 6pm with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



7. The child spend time with the father on Father's Day as follows:



a. If Father's Day falls on a school day, overnight with pickup from school and return to school the following morning with the father only attending upon school property.



b. If Fathers Day falls on a Friday or Saturday during the school term from 3pm with pickup from the school on Friday with the father only attending upon school property or from the mothers home on Saturday with the father only attending upon the mother's property until 9am the following morning with the father only attending upon the mothers property.



c. If Father's Day falls on a Sunday from 3 pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property and returned to school the following morning with the father only attending upon school property.



d. If Father's Day falls on the mothers week during the school holidays for a period of 8 hours commencing 10am until 6pm with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



8. That the child spend time with the father during the Easter long weekend for a period of 24 hours that the mother and father agree upon at their own discretion and with the father only attending upon the mother's property.



9. The child spend time with the mother on the mother's birthday and Mother's Day for a period of 8 hours commencing 10am until 6pm with the father only attending upon the mothers property if the mothers birthday or Mothers Day fall on a day that it is the fathers time with the child.



10. If it is the parents intention for the child to participate in weekly extra-curricular activities the parents will work co-operatively to facilitate the child’s attendance. Enrolment in extra-curricular activities requires consent from both parents.



11. At all other times as agreed between the parents and failing agreement at the mothers sole discretion.



12. The father have sole responsibility for the welfare and decision making of the child whilst the child is in his care and the mother have sole responsibility for the welfare and decision making of the child whilst the child is in her care.



13. Each parent have phone communication with the child on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays between the hours of 7pm and 7:30pm whilst the child is in the other parents household and with each parent ensuring the child is able to take the call and has privacy for the duration of the call.



14. Communication regarding the child occur between the parents only in person, followed up with a confirmation email and with phone communication only allowed in the event of an emergency.



15. Communication between the parents must relate to the child only.



16. Each parent remain civil to one another in the presence or hearing of the child.



17. Without admissions, each parent be restrained by injunction from the following:



a. Discussing court proceedings with the child or showing the child court documents and restraining all third parties from doing so.



b. Discussing issues in dispute between the parents with the child and restraining all third parties from doing so.



c. Questioning the child about the other parents household, family or friends whilst the child is in each parents household and restraining all third parties from doing so.



d. Denigrating the other parent or members of their family in the presence or hearing of the child or allowing the child to remain in the presence of a third party doing so.



e. Consuming illicit substances or alcohol over the legal driving limit while the child is in their respective care.



f. Smoking in the presence of the child.



18. Each parent advise the other of the following:



a. Current address and telephone numbers within 24hours of a change occurring.



b. In the event of the child being hospitalized or receiving medical attention as soon as practicable after the first contact with either the medical practitioner, medical centre or hospital.



c. Of any prescription or medical appointment that needs to carry over into the other household and with each parent ensuring the child continues to have access to these particulars.



19. Within seven days of the child’s subsequent enrolment at any school the mother will do all things necessary and give all authorities necessary to ensure that school forward directly to the father copies of all report cards, merits, and any written material pertaining to his academic and extra-curricular activities.



20. Both parents agree to go halves in the child’s school fee’s, book packs, uniforms, school travel expenses and excursions.



21. The mother must alert the father to all meetings regarding the child that may be held at the child’s school so that the father may attend.



22. Neither parent can take the child out of the country of Australia without the consent of the other parent and must provide the other parent with all documents pertaining to the trip.



23. Neither parent can take the child out of New South Wales without the consent of the other parent and must provide the other parent with all documents pertaining to the trip.



24. The child is to remain an Australian Citizen and permanent resident of Australia until the age of 18.
 

AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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Do you mind if I re-write your proposal with my suggestions for changes?
 
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AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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Okay, some comments.

First, the orders for birthday time is far too complicated. There's about 15 orders in total pertaining to when the child spends time with each parent for various birthdays - it's too much. I would pitch from after school to before school on school days, and from 3:00pm until 9:00am the following day on non-school days.

Second, there's a lot of 'with the father only attending upon the mother's property'. Don't include this. Sometimes, dad isn't going to be able to do the pick-up, but that doesn't mean the child's time with him shouldn't take place. I understand from other posts that you're trying to limit contact between his spouse and you, but the best way to make sure everyone stays civil is just to conduct changeovers either at school or at a public place, like McDonald's, and agree that it should be the father who is primarily in attendance.

If, sometimes, you end up with the step-mum, it's better to just take the hit than cause a fight in front of your child. If you include this limitation, it's going to probably put dad on the defensive, which is going to make it a lot harder for you to get consent orders.

Third, if there's conflict, it's best to arrange the schedule so the majority of changeovers take place at school, so you're better off giving dad the full weekend for Father's Day, for example, than limiting it to eight hours. I think the Court would do the same.

Fourth, 'at other times as agreed and failing agreement at the mother's sole discretion' is not appropriate. If you want to change care arrangements to your benefit, that's at his discretion, and if he wants to change it to his benefit, that's at your discretion. The Court would never give one parent more decision-making capacity than the other where it's making an order for shared parental responsibility.

Fifth, your request for phone communication is rather intrusive - you are the majority carer, and you're asking to speak to the child for three out of the five nights he spends with dad, on changeover days when you've just seen the child earlier in the day.

Sixth, it seems strange to request that communication between the parents only occur in-person, while also requesting that the child not be present for any discussions about issues in dispute between the parents. I may be wrong, but the only opportunity for in-person contact is at changeover, where the child is present. That would make it inherently difficult for the parents to discuss parenting issues without the child present, correct?

I also note the specific requirement for an order that requires the parents to be civil to one another - that would suggest there's a risk of conflict that the child might be exposed to if communication is only in-person at changeovers. I'd suggest a communication book or e-mail, with SMS in emergencies would make more sense.

Seventh, I'm not sure you'll be able to secure an injunction against smoking around the child. Sure, it can restrain the parents, but it can't restrain other parties, like dad's wife, etc. All it can request is that the parties do their best to restrain others from doing so.

Eighth, I probably wouldn't restrict the child's travel out of the state. Out of the country, yes, but out of state, probably not. That restricts your ability to holiday with the child, too.

So, here's my suggested changes:

1. The parents have equal shared parental responsibility for the child X, born Y.

2. In the exercise of their shared parental responsibility, the parents shall consult and make a genuine effort to reach agreement jointly about major, long-term decisions pertaining to the child’s care, welfare and development. Long-term decisions include, but are not limited to:

a. Major medical interventions;
b. Change of school;
c. Relocation of the child’s primary residence such that existing care arrangements become impracticable;
d. Change of name; and
e. Acquisition of a passport.

3. The child live with the mother.

4. The child spend time with the father as agreed between the parents and failing agreement, on a fortnightly cycle as follows:

a. In the first week, from after school Tuesday until before school Wednesday;
b. In the second, from after school Tuesday until before school Wednesday and from after school Friday until before school the following Monday.

5. The child spend time with the father during the NSW gazetted school holidays as agreed between the parents and failing agreement, as follows:

a. Subject to clause 5(c) and 5(d) hereto, the first half of each the Term 1, 2 and 3 school holiday periods;
b. Subject to clause 5(a) and 5(b) hereto, in the Christmas school holiday period, from 9:30am on the first Sunday until 9:30am the following Sunday and each alternate week thereafter until the commencement of the following school term.

6. The child spend additional time with the father as follows:

a. From 6:00pm Christmas Eve until 2:00pm Christmas Day in even-numbered years;
b. From 2:00pm Christmas Day until 6:00pm Boxing Day in odd-numbered years.
c. From after school (or 3:00pm if a non-school day) the Thursday preceding Good Friday until 3:00pm Easter Saturday in even-numbered years;
d. From 3:00pm Easter Saturday until 3:00pm Easter Monday in odd-numbered years.
e. From after school on Friday until before school the following Monday on the weekend that comprises Father’s Day;
f. On the child’s birthday, from after school until before school the following day if a school day, or from 3:00pm until 9:00am the following morning if a non-school day;
g. On the father’s birthday, from after school until before school the following day if a school day, or from 3:00pm until 9:00am the following morning if a non-school day.

7. The child’s time with the father shall be suspended as follows:

a. From after school on Friday until before school the following Monday on the weekend that comprises Mother’s Day;
b. On the mother’s birthday, from after school until before school the following day if a school day; or from 3:00pm until 9:00am the following day if a non-school day;
c. On the child’s birthday, from after school until before school the following day if a school day, or from 3:00pm until 9:00am the following day if a non-school day.

8. The parent with whom the child is not spending time is at liberty to communicate with the child by telephone between 7:00pm and 7:30pm each Sunday, and the parent with whom the child is spending time shall ensure the child is available to accept the call and has privacy for the duration of the call;

9. The father shall have responsibility for day-to-day decisions when the child is in his care, and the mother shall have responsibility for day-to-day decisions when the child is in her care.

10. Changeovers shall take place at the child’s school, or if a non-school day, changeovers shall take place at [your local McDonald’s or somewhere mid-way] and shall be conducted in a brief and polite manner with the father to be primarily in attendance.

11. The child shall not be enroled in extra-curricular activities without the consent of both parties, and where some consent has been attained, both parties shall use their best endeavours to ensure the child attends all relevant events pertaining to the extra-curricular activity.

12. The parents shall communicate via e-mail, or in case of an emergency via SMS, and all communication shall be polite, respectful and only about the child.

13. The parents shall refrain from, and shall endeavour to restrain all third parties from:

a. Discussing court proceedings with the child or showing the child court documents;
b. Denigrating the other parent or members of their family in the presence or hearing range of the child;
c. Consuming illicit substances or alcohol over the legal driving limit whilst the child is in their care;
d. Smoking in the presence of the child.

14. The parents shall advise each other of the following:

a. Any changes to current address and/or telephone numbers within 24 hours of such change occurring;
b. In the event of the child being hospitalized or receiving medical attention, as soon as practicable after the first contact with either the medical practitioner, medical centre or hospital;
c. Any prescription medication or medical appointment which must be tended to during the child’s time with the other parent, and that parent shall ensure the child adheres to these requirements;
d. Any school or extra-curricular activities or meetings at which parents would ordinarily attend; and
e. Any intention to travel with the child outside of the state of New South Wales, with such notice to be provided with a travel itinerary at least two weeks’ prior to the first date of the intended travel.

15. The parents shall not remove the child from the Commonwealth of Australia without the written consent of the other parent, and where consent is granted, the travelling parent shall provide the non-travelling parent with travel itineraries and all relevant contact details pertaining to the trip.

16. The child is to remain an Australian Citizen and permanent resident of Australia until the age of 18.
 

MummyOf2

Well-Known Member
18 September 2015
28
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Thank you for your response.

My main concern is that changeovers must be with only the father in attendance as his wife and inlaws have been abusive and aggressive towards my family to points where they have keyed our car, barricaded us into our property while they surrounded us with people and cars and have been continuously aggressive towards my husband.

The police, my lawyer and I all agree that they must remain as far away as appropriate during pick up and drop of at all times. This unfortunately will include my sons school as I start volunteering there this week and we must keep such aggression away from all the children.

I do like changes you have made where the wording is far less complicated, I am an armature still at writing these up. I am agreeable with all additional time except for the overnight Tuesday during week two due to prior commitments within our local community that we are involved in with our son.

In your opinion would my ex's place of work be an acceptable place for change over to take place? My ex literally works 100 metres away from my unit on the main street of our very very tiny town, so not many options for midway changeovers.
 

AllForHer

Well-Known Member
23 July 2014
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So, the reason I suggested the extra overnight is because I think if dad asks for five nights, he's going to get it. If the commitments are a sporting hobby or something, then there's no reason dad can't take the child - in fact, it would be good if he did - but if it is something that dad can't really be involved in, like a church group or something, then you might like to consider a different overnight, like Wednesday nights instead of Tuesdays.

Changeovers can be tricky. The Court can restrain people from attending changeovers, but if you're looking for consent orders, it might be better to request a middle ground. Realistically, your choice to volunteer at the school shouldn't inhibit dad from making whatever arrangements he needs to in order to collect the child during his parenting time, so you might want to consider the likelihood of the wife and her family causing a scene during the busy school pick-up hour.

If the risk is high, request that in the event a third party is collecting the child from school, the child must be collected from the school administration office, and consider moving non-school changeovers to a police station. Alternatively, you can simply request that the wife and her family refrain from approaching you during changeovers. On changeovers, as well, dad's workplace is an option, so you might consider changing the order to something like:

Changeovers shall take place at the child’s school, or if a non-school day, changeovers shall take place at [the title of the father's workplace] and shall be conducted in a brief and polite manner with the father to be primarily in attendance. In the event the father is not able to attend changeover, the father's agent attending to the changeover shall refrain from approaching the mother in any way.
If dad has even a shred of insight, he will see that his wife's presence leads to conflict the child may be exposed to, and he will accept this as a necessary step to protect the kids. The last thing they really need to see is mum and step-mum fighting.
 

MartyK

Well-Known Member
4 June 2016
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I am agreeable with all additional time except for the overnight Tuesday during week two due to prior commitments within our local community that we are involved in with our son.

This here is something you need to think about and decide on your own.

Without seeing what the other party is seeking, what days, as well as further information as to all other factors that may need to be taken into consideration, then it is very difficult to give any view as to what would be reasonably practicable or in the best interests of your children.

Remember too, fortnights do not need to be broken up into 3 different time periods. Week 1 could always be one overnight with week 2 being 4 consecutive nights.

As I said, you need to have a think about this.

MummyOf2 said:
In your opinion would my ex's place of work be an acceptable place for change over to take place? My ex literally works 100 metres away from my unit on the main street of our very very tiny town, so not many options for midway changeovers.

School, ex's work place, McDonalds, anywhere at all is a better option than a police station for kids in my view!
 
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MummyOf2

Well-Known Member
18 September 2015
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Ok so, I went through it with your suggestions and tweaked the document a fair bit. I kept a few things and compromised on a couple of others.

My ex's workplace is the best bet, we don't even have a pizza place or a video store here let alone a McDonalds unfortunately... this town is terribly small.

My ex is seeking 100% care. His wife and mother in law decided they wanted my son to live with them and so my ex retained my son. When I served him he responded with an affidavit full of lies to try and get my son taken away. Not in my sons best interest obviously. I have always encouraged their time together even when my ex couldn't be bothered to be around for 6 years.

At this point in time, because of the aggression, abuse, violence against myself and my husband it is best that I only deal with my ex from now on. My biggest concern regarding emails and letters has been that my ex's wife is writing them all, I am in no way communicating with my ex which is why I suggested communicating in person.

I'll attach in the next message the changes I made for your review with the only thing I am thinking I really need to figure out is how to communicate with my ex so I really know I am talking to him.