WA Chances of Including Kids in Restraining Order Against Mother?

[Hoang Trang]

Final orders are for my children to spend time with their mother every second weekend from Friday to Sunday. Pick up is at 4:00pm at MacDonald's. Unfortunately this Sunday passed had a incident where mother and her boyfriend assaulted me in front our my children.

She hit me with a open fist to my face and boyfriend grabbed me by my throat all in front of my 2 young kids. I did not say or doing anything to provoke nor did I do anything after, just kept my cool. Fortunately, I have witnesses and CCTV of it. I went to the police to file a report and is being investigated now. Possible charges of both of them are aggravated assault. Will be applying for a VRO or a restraining order tomorrow. Any luck with me adding my children on as well?

I am now genuinely concerned for my kids safety and well being when they are with their mother especially her boyfriend as they live together. If granted, how will if affect my current orders? Wish to seek supervised visits for now until she can prove to manager her anger.

 

[AllForHer]

The parenting orders will overrule a VRO where necessary, so let’s say you have a no-contact VRO that names the kids as protected parties, but you also have parenting orders for Mum to see the kids on days X, Y and Z, then Mum will still see the kids on days X, Y and Z without breaching the VRO. Her obligation not to commit domestic violence against them, however, would persist even through days X, Y and Z.

A VRO is protection on its own, meaning you depend on the VRO to protect you from domestic violence perpetrated by the mother, rather than a VRO and parenting orders together.

 

[Rod]

Yes, add the children as well, and it likely works as stated by AllForHer. I'm not confident in WA family law as WA has their own rules, both Family law and domestic violence.

 

[Hoang Trang]

The parenting orders will overrule a VRO where necessary, so let’s say you have a no-contact VRO that names the kids as protected parties, but you also have parenting orders for Mum to see the kids on days X, Y and Z, then Mum will still see the kids on days X, Y and Z without breaching the VRO. Her obligation not to commit domestic violence against them, however, would persist even through days X, Y and Z.

A VRO is protection on its own, meaning you depend on the VRO to protect you from domestic violence perpetrated by the mother, rather than a VRO and parenting orders together.

So essentially given their are added parties to the VRO, it doesn't really make any difference. What are my options then if any? Can we go to interim orders?

 

[AllForHer]

That’s not what I said.

A VRO provides protection against domestic violence by making any breach of the VRO a criminal offence for which they can be charged and convicted, just as though their actions had been added to the Criminal Code alongside homicide or theft or trespass. A VRO works by providing the same motivation we have for not shoplifting or belting a fellow road user with a baseball bat - because there’s a good chance we would be arrested and punished for doing so.

What a VRO will not give you is a shortcut to undoing your children’s rights to have a meaningful relationship with both parents, and rightfully so. If VROs had no such limitations, there would be nothing to stop parents with hurt feelings from getting revenge on their ex at the expense of the kids.

Presumably, your goal is to be protected from domestic violence perpetrated by the mother against you or the kids, is it not? It is to protect the kids from being exposed to the harm caused by witnessing domestic violence between you and your ex, is it not?

If so, then a VRO will help you to achieve those goals. For example, a VRO might stop the boyfriend from attending changeovers. It might force at least some civility in the mother’s interactions with you. Some other options might be to tell Mum that changeovers will now occur in front of a police station from now on, or that they’re to be executed by third parties, rather than the parents themselves.

If your goal is to deprive your kids of their right a relationship with their mother on a permanent basis, however, then a VRO is not for you. You’ll need to prove to the Family Court is WA that Mum poses an unacceptable risk of harm to the kids for that to happens, and it sounds to me like her beef is with you, not her kids.

 

[sammy01]

Can you give some background?

So court orders are very recent?

They give you majority time? And mum isn't happy?

An avo VRO won't affect the orders. You could withhold the kids on welfare concerns. But I have issues with that. Sure what mum and boyfriend did is very bad form. But if it is a one off, I think you'll find that if that is the only concern then withholding them could be perceived as alienation.

 

[SamanthaJay]

I'd be getting one against the boyfriend as well, with the children added.

 

[Hoang Trang]

I do not by any means intended to deprive my kids from time with their mother. My concern is the constant mental, verbal and now physical threats will impact my kids. They are only 5 and having witnessed this have a hard time understanding and comprehending.

My goal is to protect my kids, they come first period. God forbid nothing further happened that day and I now constantly worry what could potentially happen when In her care. None the less the beef is between mother and father. Have taken the advice and will look at ways to reduce conflict at handovers, etc.

Also will be applying for one against her boyfriend. As of now, don't know what his name is, etc. Need to wait for the police investigation to progress to get the details. His threats and violence was directed at me but could I add my children as parties to the VRO?

They are very frightened and were less then 5 meters away when he went into a fit of rage. As they live together this would make time spent with mother rather difficult?

 

[SamanthaJay]

That's her problem if she wants to shack up with a thug. No way should the children be exposed to his violence. If he's doing it in plain view of you and the children then you can guarantee he'll be up for it in the home environment. I would be adding the children.

 

[Hoang Trang]

Can you give some background?
So court orders are very recent?
They give you majority time? and mum isn't happy?

An avo VRO wont affect the orders. You could withold the kids on welfare concerns. But I have issues with that. Sure what mum and boyfriend did is very bad form. But if it is a one off, I think you'll find that if that is the ony ain concern then witholding them could be percieved as alienation

Orders are 10 months old giving me 78% percent care although more like 85% as she doesn't take them for half holidays, just every second weekend. And even then she palms them off to her friends for a night. She is bitter but not because of the orders but more so wasting $30K lawyer fees only to lose. Hell I tell her to come see the kids whenever she wants.