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Scruff

Well-Known Member
25 July 2018
902
133
2,389
NSW
Something to always remember - Police are required to identify themselves as Police officers.

These wannabe cops in shopping centres who flash badges or ID's without identifying themselves are never Police.

Incorrect, see, for example, Criminal Investigations Act 2006 (WA) s 11. Also, they are not required to identify themselves for a citizens arrest and it would seem pointless to identify yourself in circumstances where you wouldn’t be exerting any authority beyond that of any other citizen. The whole point of police identifying themselves is to ‘identify’ themselves as a person with authority.

Not incorrect at all. No-one here is talking about WA - the question relates to NSW law.
If you are stopped by Police in NSW, they are required to identify themselves as Police unless they are in uniform. That's the law.
 

SaulGoodman

Well-Known Member
11 March 2019
19
1
74
Not incorrect at all. No-one here is talking about WA - the question relates to NSW law.
If you are stopped by Police in NSW, they are required to identify themselves as Police unless they are in uniform. That's the law.

What law? Can you provide the relevant act and section?
 

Scruff

Well-Known Member
25 July 2018
902
133
2,389
NSW
What law? Can you provide the relevant act and section?
Of course I can...

NSW Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002

Part 15 Safeguards relating to powers

Note. For other safeguards relating to seizure or confiscation of property by police, see Part 17.
For other requirements relating to personal searches, see Part 4.

201 Police powers to which this Part applies

(1) This Part applies to the exercise of the following powers by police officers:
(a) a power to stop, search or arrest a person,
(b) a power to stop or search a vehicle, vessel or aircraft,
(c) a power to enter or search premises,
(d) a power to seize property,
(e) a power to require the disclosure of the identity of a person (including a power to require the removal of a face covering for identification purposes),
(f) a power to give or make a direction, requirement or request that a person is required to comply with by law,
(g) a power to establish a crime scene at premises (not being a public place).
This Part applies (subject to subsection (3)) to the exercise of any such power whether or not the power is conferred by this Act.
Note. This Part extends to special constables exercising any such police powers—see section 82L of the Police Act 1990. This Part also extends to recognised law enforcement officers (with modifications)—see clause 132B of the Police Regulation 2008.​
(2) This Part does not apply to the exercise of any of the following powers of police officers:
(a) a power to enter or search a public place,
(b) a power conferred by a covert search warrant,
(c) a power to detain an intoxicated person under Part 16.​
(3) This Part does not apply to the exercise of a power that is conferred by an Act or regulation specified in Schedule 1.

202 Police officers to provide information when exercising powers

(1) A police officer who exercises a power to which this Part applies must provide the following to the person subject to the exercise of the power:
(a) evidence that the police officer is a police officer (unless the police officer is in uniform),
(b) the name of the police officer and his or her place of duty,
(c) the reason for the exercise of the power.
(2) A police officer must comply with this section:
(a) as soon as it is reasonably practicable to do so, or
(b) in the case of a direction, requirement or request to a single person—before giving or making the direction, requirement or request.​
(3) A direction, requirement or request to a group of persons is not required to be repeated to each person in the group.
(4) If 2 or more police officers are exercising a power to which this Part applies, only one officer present is required to comply with this section.
(5) If a person subject to the exercise of a power to which this Part applies asks a police officer present for information as to the name of the police officer and his or her place of duty, the police officer must give to the person the information requested.
(6) A police officer who is exercising more than one power to which this Part applies on a single occasion and in relation to the same person is required to comply with subsection (1) (a) and (b) only once on that occasion.
 

SaulGoodman

Well-Known Member
11 March 2019
19
1
74
You haven't provided any law that supports your assertions and you have managed to contradict yourself too.

Your original comments that started this discussion was:

Something to always remember - Police are required to identify themselves as Police officers.

These wannabe cops in shopping centres who flash badges or ID's without identifying themselves are never Police.

I said this was incorrect and it is. A person who 'flashes a badge' without identifying themselves may very well be a police officer since, under the very law you cited, 'flashing a badge' is not exercising a power within the meaning of that Act.

Also, you said that:

If you are stopped by Police in NSW, they are required to identify themselves as Police unless they are in uniform. That's the law.

OP said as they walked out of the shop someone flashed their badge, asked questions and OP accompanied that person back to the office. There is no stopping, detention or arrest here. Furthermore, as is the case with any statutory interpretation exercise, the Act needs to be considered as a whole and when it is the obligation to 'identify themselves' is not compulsory in all circumstances. As observed by Leeming JA in Hutchinson v State of New South Wales [2019] NSWCA 91:

It is plainly not physically possible for the officer to comply with s 201(1) in relation to every individual passing motorist and pedestrian, and there is no reason to construe a provision which confers an important qualification upon police power in a way which means compliance is impossible.

I only take issue with your absolute phrases like '...are never Police'. I agree with you generally, but when you make such explicit statements it runs the risk of misinforming anyone who reads your comment. A Police Officer may very well flash their badge at a person without identifying themselves, it doesn't mean they are not a Police Officer, it just means they may have not complied with the Act in that particular circumstance.
 

Scruff

Well-Known Member
25 July 2018
902
133
2,389
NSW
And of course we could all see that coming.
Furthermore, as is the case with any statutory interpretation exercise, the Act needs to be considered as a whole and when it is the obligation to 'identify themselves' is not compulsory in all circumstances. As observed by Leeming JA in Hutchinson v State of New South Wales [2019] NSWCA 91:
That's hilarious. You also need to interpret in the context of the case.
The OP did not cross a road closed by Police; the OP did not resist arrest; the OP did not assault Police.
The circumstances of the case you cite have nothing to do with the circumstances of the OP. Leeming's comments are not relevant here.

In regard to s202(2) - "as soon as it is reasonably practicable to do so" - in the OP's circumstances, this means when he/she was first approached (stopped) or when he/she was asked to return to the office (a direction). Any time after that direction was given is not reasonable in the circumstances - and those circumstances are what we are talking about here.

In regard to being "stopped" - I'm assuming the OP was stopped, you're assuming he/she wasn't. Let those chips fall where they will. That aside, a direction was given and that's not in dispute.

My entire point, which should have been obvious, was that if you walk out of a shop and someone flashes a badge asking questions, wants you to go with them, wants to search your bag and doesn't identify themselves, then never assume they are a cop because they won't be. It simply doesn't happen in the real world - especially in NSW where it would be illegal.
 
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457Visafraud

Well-Known Member
16 April 2017
115
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389
OP said as they walked out of the shop someone flashed their badge, asked questions and OP accompanied that person back to the office. There is no stopping, detention or arrest here.
I assume you're in conflict of interests here because you're saying or misinterpreting what the OP said or did.
They "never" walked out together but she (I assume is a woman) walked out and was followed buy a "someone" she thought it was a Police officer! So stop telling misleading stuff!
She "never" accompanied that person back in the office but she was coerced and asked to do so!
And then you said that there is no stopping! So what you say is that the security staff walked to the woman and said "hey let's go back to the shop I offer you coffee with muffin for free!
A Police Officer may very well flash their badge at a person without identifying themselves, it doesn't mean they are not a Police Officer
A Police is a Police and they don't need to flash a badge unless specifically ask to, you can see very clearly what is a Police and what the OP saw was someone who looked like Police.
Now please stop with this non sense!
As I said the OP was coerced into submission for "stealing" $2, she then was coerced in "signing" an admission which means she thought she was under arrest hence she had to sign the paper.
Still not enough, the "feral" migrant security staff submitted the complaint form to Coles!
Stop this!
 

SaulGoodman

Well-Known Member
11 March 2019
19
1
74
I assume you're in conflict of interests here because you're saying or misinterpreting what the OP said or did.
They "never" walked out together but she (I assume is a woman) walked out and was followed buy a "someone" she thought it was a Police officer! So stop telling misleading stuff!
She "never" accompanied that person back in the office but she was coerced and asked to do so!
And then you said that there is no stopping! So what you say is that the security staff walked to the woman and said "hey let's go back to the shop I offer you coffee with muffin for free!

A Police is a Police and they don't need to flash a badge unless specifically ask to, you can see very clearly what is a Police and what the OP saw was someone who looked like Police.
Now please stop with this non sense!
As I said the OP was coerced into submission for "stealing" $2, she then was coerced in "signing" an admission which means she thought she was under arrest hence she had to sign the paper.
Still not enough, the "feral" migrant security staff submitted the complaint form to Coles!
Stop this!


No need to get hysterical. Your comment provided no legally relevant information, just random and unfounded assertions.
 

457Visafraud

Well-Known Member
16 April 2017
115
4
389
No need to get hysterical. Your comment provided no legally relevant information, just random and unfounded assertions.
No need to get rude, your comments for sure talked about laws that don't apply to this topic.
Relax dude and say hello to the feral security guys.
 
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